[fastwater]

Thanks Fastwater, I bought a small digital scale and weighted them Shockwave bonded was like 17.5 grams which converted to around 250 grain when I looked up conversion chart. Gonna give Deer hunting a try this season any suggestions on which of those would be best.

The only one I can comment on out of the three you mentioned would be the Shockwave's. I've shot a bunch of the regular Aerotips Powerbelts but have no experience with the Platinum's. I have a Rem 700 m/l that slings the regular Aerotips as accurate as can be with 90 grns of Cleanshot powder but the problem with them is they often fragment on game. Also, powder loads much past 90grns. is when I start getting flyers.
Far as the Shockwaves go, out of the Encore with 110 grns of Blackhorn 209, they are absolute tack drivers. Just to unreliable on expansion.
The very reason I have taken the advice of Lundy and a few others and switched to the Barnes 250grn TEZ's.

The TEZ's had been flying well but just about the time I was getting them really dialed in like I wanted, I decided to pull my breech plug and drill the flash hole out to .035. I haven't been able to get back out to see the changes this is going to make in the POI.
If I can get the Barnes hitting as accurate as the Shockwave's or the Hornady SST's did...and they perform on game like they are designed to do and have the reputation of doing...I am going to be one happy camper.

So back to your question on which to use, sorry, I can't really say for sure.
I don't know how the Powerbelt Platinums or the Federals react when hitting game versus hitting paper targets.
Hopefully someone with experience shooting them will chime in with their thoughts.

 

[Lundy]

If I had to choose I would choose a slightly less accurate load and bullet with good terminal performance over an extremely accurate bullet or load that doesn't deliver acceptable terminal performance. Fortunately I have never had to make those kinds of choices. I have always been able to get my bullet of choice to shoot very well from any MZ I have ever owned, traditional style powders to the smokeless versions, same results.

Many think MZ accuracy is as easy as purchasing a bullet and some powder and stuffing it down the barrel and expecting great results. Every gun is different and unique, even from the same manufacturer and same model. You have 5 primary components that all must be in harmony to achieve the maximum accuracy, performance and repeatability, powder, load volume, sabot, bullet and ignition source. Change any one of these and you change the outcome. Unfortunately many are forced to compromise by selecting bullets that may not deliver the best down range deer killing capability but it allows them to circumvent the tedious process of working up a load to shoot a bullet that just by design delivers better deer killing ability.

If the entire intent, the primary end goal, of deer hunting with a MZ is to kill a deer I would make sure I have the business end of that task and capable as possible.

 

[fastwater]

Agree with your assessment Lundy. Especially the part about many thinking the can get an inline, stuff most anything down the bore and should be clover leafing at 100yds.
It's not until they shoot with someone that has done their homework, spent time working up the right load(paying particular attention to those 5 areas you speak of) and shoots circles around the person that hasn't that that person then realizes they haven't come close to squeezing out the accuracy their rifle is capable of.
And FWIW, all that didn't just start with inlines. Same was/is true with cap locks,flinters etc.
But IMHO, that has always been part of the fun of shooting front stuffers.

 

[Tim67]

Went to the range today beautiful day but bit of a strong crosswind around 19mph . My groupings were very tight as pic shows, just could not get in bulls for anything. But at 100 plus yards not too bad. Was shooting TC Shockwave 200grain bonded, when I tried heavier grain was way off. I thought with wind that 250- 300 grain would shoot better, not the case any thoughts from the wiser gents in the group?

 

[fastwater]

If the three 12oclock and 9 o'clock are the 200grn Shockwave's they are grouping nicely. What sabot's were you using with the 250-300grn bullets? Were they the same as the 200grn Shockwave's?

 

[Tim67]

The 200 have the blue 3 pedal sabot. -

 

[fastwater]

The thickness and pedal number of the sabot can affect the performance just as much as the bullet weight.
It's been my experience that you can usually pick a bullet weight and get it to shoot good enough 'minute of deer' by finding the right sabot and powder charge to match up with the bullet.
As close as its getting to hunting season, if I were you I would start working up whatever load you are going to stick with for hunting and really start working with that load.
Again, FWIW, thanks to the wise recommendations and advice of Lundy and a few others, I have switched from the Shockwave bonded bullets as well as the Hornady SST's(which are the same bullet) and went to the Barnes TEZ's. There are now actually four of us making that switch. The reason is surely not the lack of accuracy of the Shockwave's or the SST bullets. But rather the years of repeated poor performance of the bullet when hitting a deer. They hit where you aim for sure. They just don't expand reliably causing little, if any blood trail.

Also, my buddy has a rather new Encore Pro Hunter XT that has a very tight bore. The other day he was shooting White Hots. Two pellets...100grn.
I was explaining to him how clean Blackhorn 209 shot. He explained to me that he thought the White Hots were just as clean as the Blachorn 209. So we did a little experiment. He was able to shoot two shots with the White Hots without cleaning between shots. The third load we could not get all the way down the dirty bbl.
Removed that load.
Cleaned bbl and started shooting 100grns by volume of Blackhorn 209. Shot seven consecutive shots and could have went further but buddy decided he would switch to the Blackhorn as he was convinced Blackhorn is that much cleaner. He even made the statement that the seventh load did not load any harder than the 2nd and 3rd load. And to top things off, once zeroed with the Blackhorn, the Barnes TEZ's are dotting the I's out of his rifle just the same as the Shockwave's were.

Bottom line is...if I were shopping for a bullet for deer hunting that not only offered accuracy but reliable expansion on game, I'd surely put the Shockwave's aside. I've shot too many deer with them over the years that when those deer were recovered, which sometimes was very difficult, I found the same size entrance hole as exit hole. And when field dressing, found internal organs with the same size holes.
Accurate...yes!
Good or even mediocre terminal performance...NO!

 

[Smitty82]

I’m sold on the black horn from shooting it this off season. One thing I have noticed is I seem to have more muzzle flash from the bh (70 weight by scale) compared to the triple 7. I’m thinking this is bc the bh is loose not pellet. I’ve also done a comparison between the 250 sst and the 250 Barnes tmz boat tail. Sst is more accurate but the tmz arnt too far behind. I’m curious if this is bc of the boat tail, so I’m going to get some Tez’s flat and see how that does.

 

[fastwater]

I’m sold on the black horn from shooting it this off season. One thing I have noticed is I seem to have more muzzle flash from the bh (70 weight by scale) compared to the triple 7. I’m thinking this is bc the bh is loose not pellet. I’ve also done a comparison between the 250 sst and the 250 Barnes tmz boat tail. Sst is more accurate but the tmz arnt too far behind. I’m curious if this is bc of the boat tail, so I’m going to get some Tez’s flat and see how that does.

I have not tried the tmz boat tails.
Wanted a flat bottom bullet cause I have bulk bags of various flat bottom sabot's and two other inlines that shoot 250grn bullets well but require heavier sabot's. The Pro Hunter likes the TEZ with the sabot that comes with them.

 

[Tim67]

The thickness and pedal number of the sabot can affect the performance just as much as the bullet weight.
It's been my experience that you can usually pick a bullet weight and get it to shoot good enough 'minute of deer' by finding the right sabot and powder charge to match up with the bullet.
As close as its getting to hunting season, if I were you I would start working up whatever load you are going to stick with for hunting and really start working with that load.
Again, FWIW, thanks to the wise recommendations and advice of Lundy and a few others, I have switched from the Shockwave bonded bullets as well as the Hornady SST's(which are the same bullet) and went to the Barnes TEZ's. There are now actually four of us making that switch. The reason is surely not the lack of accuracy of the Shockwave's or the SST bullets. But rather the years of repeated poor performance of the bullet when hitting a deer. They hit where you aim for sure. They just don't expand reliably causing little, if any blood trail.

Also, my buddy has a rather new Encore Pro Hunter XT that has a very tight bore. The other day he was shooting White Hots. Two pellets...100grn.
I was explaining to him how clean Blackhorn 209 shot. He explained to me that he thought the White Hots were just as clean as the Blachorn 209. So we did a little experiment. He was able to shoot two shots with the White Hots without cleaning between shots. The third load we could not get all the way down the dirty bbl.
Removed that load.
Cleaned bbl and started shooting 100grns by volume of Blackhorn 209. Shot seven consecutive shots and could have went further but buddy decided he would switch to the Blackhorn as he was convinced Blackhorn is that much cleaner. He even made the statement that the seventh load did not load any harder than the 2nd and 3rd load. And to top things off, once zeroed with the Blackhorn, the Barnes TEZ's are dotting the I's out of his rifle just the same as the Shockwave's were.

Bottom line is...if I were shopping for a bullet for deer hunting that not only offered accuracy but reliable expansion on game, I'd surely put the Shockwave's aside. I've shot too many deer with them over the years that when those deer were recovered, which sometimes was very difficult, I found the same size entrance hole as exit hole. And when field dressing, found internal organs with the same size holes.
Accurate...yes!
Good or even mediocre terminal performance...NO!

The thickness and pedal number of the sabot can affect the performance just as much as the bullet weight.
It's been my experience that you can usually pick a bullet weight and get it to shoot good enough 'minute of deer' by finding the right sabot and powder charge to match up with the bullet.
As close as its getting to hunting season, if I were you I would start working up whatever load you are going to stick with for hunting and really start working with that load.
Again, FWIW, thanks to the wise recommendations and advice of Lundy and a few others, I have switched from the Shockwave bonded bullets as well as the Hornady SST's(which are the same bullet) and went to the Barnes TEZ's. There are now actually four of us making that switch. The reason is surely not the lack of accuracy of the Shockwave's or the SST bullets. But rather the years of repeated poor performance of the bullet when hitting a deer. They hit where you aim for sure. They just don't expand reliably causing little, if any blood trail.

Also, my buddy has a rather new Encore Pro Hunter XT that has a very tight bore. The other day he was shooting White Hots. Two pellets...100grn.
I was explaining to him how clean Blackhorn 209 shot. He explained to me that he thought the White Hots were just as clean as the Blachorn 209. So we did a little experiment. He was able to shoot two shots with the White Hots without cleaning between shots. The third load we could not get all the way down the dirty bbl.
Removed that load.
Cleaned bbl and started shooting 100grns by volume of Blackhorn 209. Shot seven consecutive shots and could have went further but buddy decided he would switch to the Blackhorn as he was convinced Blackhorn is that much cleaner. He even made the statement that the seventh load did not load any harder than the 2nd and 3rd load. And to top things off, once zeroed with the Blackhorn, the Barnes TEZ's are dotting the I's out of his rifle just the same as the Shockwave's were.

Bottom line is...if I were shopping for a bullet for deer hunting that not only offered accuracy but reliable expansion on game, I'd surely put the Shockwave's aside. I've shot too many deer with them over the years that when those deer were recovered, which sometimes was very difficult, I found the same size entrance hole as exit hole. And when field dressing, found internal organs with the same size holes.
Accurate...yes!
Good or even mediocre terminal performance...NO!

Fastwater, I want to thank you and the others in this group of course. For all of the helpful insight you have given over the past few months. It's much appreciated, that said , I will try to find somewhere to order the Barnes combos asap. As you said time is drawing short for opening day and will need to practice some will the Barnes. About the short reply on sabots, battery went dead and was all I could get in. The 250-300 (?) Shockwaves come with yellow 3-4 pedal sabot, when I have enough, I switch to TC's basic black sabot they sell w/their CheapShot. It's a thinner sabot and loads easier but shoots those boattails much more accurate at least from my Omega. Again Thank you and am going to find n order some of the Barnes asap. Have a great weekend!

 

[fastwater]

Fastwater, I want to thank you and the others in this group of course. For all of the helpful insight you have given over the past few months. It's much appreciated, that said , I will try to find somewhere to order the Barnes combos asap. As you said time is drawing short for opening day and will need to practice some will the Barnes. About the short reply on sabots, battery went dead and was all I could get in. The 250-300 (?) Shockwaves come with yellow 3-4 pedal sabot, when I have enough, I switch to TC's basic black sabot they sell w/their CheapShot. It's a thinner sabot and loads easier but shoots those boattails much more accurate at least from my Omega. Again Thank you and am going to find n order some of the Barnes asap. Have a great weekend!

You're very welcome Tim.
As far as ordering the Barnes bullets, the Spitfire MZ and TMZ bullets are the boattail design that come with a bit of a heavier sabot. The Spitfire TEZ is a flat bottom bullet the same as the Shockwave bullets that comes with a thinner sabot that is for tighter bores.
Taking Lundy's advice from a much earlier post in this thread, I called Barnes and told them that I am shooting an Encore Pro Hunter with 250grn Shockwave's, using 110grns of Blackhorn 209 powder and Remington STS 209 primers. I asked the guy what Barnes he woulld suggest. His response was that most Thompson Center gun bores are on the tighter side and suggested I use the Spitfire TEZ bullets. Again, they come with a blue,thin sabot for easier loading in tighter bores.
My Encore bore sounds as though it may be much like your Omega bore which is a bit on the tight side so I took his advice and went with the Spitfire TEZ's.
As far as finding the Barnes bullets locally around Ohio, with the exception of making a long trip to our nearest Cabellas store, our group just couldn't find them at smaller stores. Using the 'where to buy Barnes bullets' on the Barnes website, when you type your zip code in it will give you a list of stores in your area that are supposed to carry Barnes bullets. Unfortunately none of these places had any in stock this time of year. We shopped around online and ended up ordering ours from Cabellas because we got free shipping on any order over $100. Ordering six 24count packages(they come in 15ct also) qualified us for the free shipping.
Others on here have reported they can't find them in their local stores either.
I don't know where you live but if you find them locally around you, please come back and post as others may want to know as well.

 

[Tim67]

I live in Crestline, bout 10 miles west of Mansfield. And will do, should I come across any locally or regional for that matter I will be sure to pass that info along. Thanks again Have a great day

 

[Burkcarp1]

I just bought some from midway. They had them in stock.

 

[Tim67]

I just bought some from midway. They had them in stock.

Burkcarp1, Not to be too personal but can I ask you how much they are per pack and do they have a minimum order? Thanks Tim67

 

[Burkcarp1]

Burkcarp1, Not to be too personal but can I ask you how much they are per pack and do they have a minimum order? Thanks Tim67

19.99 for a 15 pk .free shipping over 99.00. I must have took the last ones because I just looked and they are out of stock

 

[Smitty82]

Both Muzzle-Loaders.com, and Brownells has them in stock. I personally like ordering from midway but as stated before they are out of stock.

 

[fastwater]

19.99 for a 15 pk .free shipping over 99.00. I must have took the last ones because I just looked and they are out of stock

Cabellas has them for the same.
They also have the 24pk for $29.99.
The 15pk @ $19.99 = $1.33 / rd
The 24pk @ $29.99 = $1.25 / rd
Also if there is shipping, that obviously jacks the price per up even more per rd.
On the shipping, Cabellas is currently offering special free shipping on any purchase over $50 instead of the normal $100.

 

[Tim67]

Morning everyone I have been sowing a lot of read and studying in general trying to prepare myself for my first ever Deer hunt. I wanted to ask if Anyone has has any experience with T/C Variflame primer adapter. I read that these burn much cleaner, and increase accuracy. I am more interested in not having all the build up on my breach plug (sorry I shot a T/C Omega z5 50 cal) which I have shooting nice tight groups with 2 bullets; Powerbelt 295grain Aerotip and Shockwave spiral tip 250 grain 100 grain pellets pyrodex. But I am a little confused how these work, it mentions 209 Blackhorn powder. Do you load these adapters w/the blackhorn and use the blackhorn as your charge as well. If anyone can add something to help better explain how these work I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks and a safe and happy holiday weekend toyou all. Tim67

 

[buckbob]

From what i have read these allow you to use large rifle primers it just an insert that fits into your normal 209 primer breech plug and you insert a large rifle primer into this insert

 

[fastwater]

From what i have read these allow you to use large rifle primers it just an insert that fits into your normal 209 primer breech plug and you insert a large rifle primer into this insert

buckbob is correct in that the Variflame allows you to use large rifle primers. The mention of Blackhorn209 in what you've read is simply stating that the Variflame ignition can be used when shooting different powders including BH209.
But the 'adapters' that the large rifle primers are pressed into will not fit into a stock breech plug. The stock breech plug must be drilled out for the LRP adapter to fit into or you will have to buy the breech plug that comes with the Variflame system that is already drilled out.
In picture note the larger hole in breech plug on left for primer adapter to fit.
The primed LRP 'adapter' itself is also shown on the left as well right below that breech plug.
For comparison, the breech plug on the right is the stock breech plug and regular 209 primer.

Also note that the Variflame 'adapter' shown on the lower left of the pic already has a LRP pressed into it and ready to be used. Once primer is used, the primer itself has to be knocked out of the adapter and a new primer pressed in requiring additional,special priming tools to be purchased for seating primers into adapters. Again, the primers press into adapters tightly and cannot be put in with fingers.
IMO, this is just too much hassle and if I were considering changing up ignition systems, before I went with the Variflame route, I would go with the system that utilizes primed pistol brass as a primer.

Also, I believe the Variflame system is recommended for shooting loose powder...not pellets. And it is also recommended that if using the stock breech plug, when drilling out the primer pocket to accept the adapter, that the flash hole be drilled out as well to .034.

As far as your breech plug getting dirty, I know you are using Pyrodex pellets, which Pyro is very dirty, but what 209 primers are you using? Some are dirtier than others. I've found that the 209 Remington Premier STS primers to be a bit cleaner than the Federals,CCI,Fiochi or other primers I've used.
But they all seem to require using a 1/16" drill bit of the flash channel and torch tip cleaner in the flash hole for best accuracy after 6-10 shots.