#1 Who has proof the state poisoned the weeds at Nimi. I have talked to several Watercraft officers who frequent Nimi and they keep bringing up to me they don't know why everyone is accusing them. They are the first to admit it would be a stupid idea.

#2 Those who are not old enough to remember Mogadore 30 years ago have not idea what the weeds used to be like. Not only was it nearly unboatable it also stunk. The belief at the time the White Amur's were stocked (by the Goodyear hunting and Fishing club and donations by sportsmen not the State) the general belief was the lake would be totally unuseable for recreation if the weed growth was not managed.

#3 The weeds in Mogadore have always been sensitive to the warmer water temperature. I would like to see a study on the average water temperatures of Mogadore and Nimi in recent years compared to 30 years ago. It is my theory that if Glogal warming is for real, why would it not have some effect on local vegetation.

 

Kinda stuck here Lokt.

I am a sailboater... not as much anymore but used to frequent Sandusky, Bay Point at "R" dock. I NEVER looked down at other boaters or fisherman and I never will, I am not that type and Im sure your not singling people out..but there are some sailors on this sight.
Never made it to Nimi , In the sailboat that is.
I fished mogadore since I was 4, I remember the days of "Weednmore" very well.
If I remember right the idea was to do Amurs because it wouldnt kill all of the weeds only thin it out and leave alot for fish to use.
I completely agree with no complete killing and I LITERALLY HATE when people introduce things into our natural resources.
Remember however, it was us " meaning people in general" who got it to this point now.

 

I would think that whom ever manages those reservoirs can do whatever they want because they are the ones that brought us what we are using. I'm for supporting people that bring us places to fish.

 

LOKT, I don't think you have it right.Mogodore is an Akron watershed that eventually becomes someones drinking water.If you live in Akron you've been drinking these chemicals for the past 8 years.Lake Rockwell supplies you with your drinking water and they have been dumping chemicals by the 55 gallon drums 3 times a year the past 8 years to eliminate the weed growth.They think it's an easy way out when the people of Akron complain their water smells or tastes bad.It's cheaper than the cost of an employee running the dredger to take out excess weed growth.The ODNR has nothing to do with it.Resevoirs are someones water supplies first and recreation comes second.

 

Wingfoot Lake used to be overgrown with weeds. You couldn't row or motor a boat thru it without a Great Deal of difficulty. Goodyear stocked amurs in there and today, you will be hard pressed to find a good sized weed bed. I know for a fact that the manager at WFL would load boats with grass clipping and have the employees of the park take them out and dump them for food for the amurs-once the weeds were overharvested. Basically, they must have overstocked the lake since it is relatively shallow and felt they would loose too many amurs to Winter kill-which never happened. Good, Bad decision making? I don't know but I do know the today lake is very fishable, has a good healthy/variety of fish populations, and I have yet to see one sailboat out there in nearly 40 years of fishing the lake. If the DNR is successful in getting the property, they will be getting a relatively clean lake with very little work(short of some needed launch facilities) to start out with.
Good gills, crappie, few walleye, cats, some pike, lots of bass, and AMURS.

 

#4... A heavily weed infested lake stands a much better chance of experiencing a winter fish kill. Rotting vegetation uses up oxygen under the ice, and low oxygen levels will kill alot of fish and most times its the biggest that die first.

 

I would think that whom ever manages those reservoirs can do whatever they want because they are the ones that brought us what we are using. I'm for supporting people that bring us places to fish.

I concur...

There are only a handfull of natural lakes in Ohio (perhaps 3?). All other lakes/impoundents are man made. IMO we are responsible for maintaing these reasources as we are the ones who constructed them. At times it seems as though Mother nature is at a loss when it comes to fixing problems/alterations that we have brought forth.

 

#4... A heavily weed infested lake stands a much better chance of experiencing a winter fish kill. Rotting vegetation uses up oxygen under the ice, and low oxygen levels will kill alot of fish and most times its the biggest that die first.

Couldn't agree more.

#5 - I believe we call them the department of natural resources because they're educated in preservation and conservation. It may be frustrating when weeds are killed off, but they can literally kill off a lake, choke it, and turn it into more of a marsh than a fishable area.

On a side note, whatever happened at Nimi definitely hurt fishing for the 2007 season, but I believe (as I've stated before) it will actually improve it in the long run.

 

leeabu sez, " #1 Who has proof the state poisoned the weeds at Nimi. I have talked to several Watercraft officers who frequent Nimi and they keep bringing up to me they don't know why everyone is accusing them. They are the first to admit it would be a stupid idea."

The weeds disappeared at Nimi as had been mentioned on this site earlier this season. They didn't walk away. There's your proof. Maybe you think some private citizen took it upon themself to spend their own money and effort to kill the weeds at Nimi just for sh##s and giggles. I don't.
The state folks are as lame as it gets. They won't even enforce the littering laws. They're utterly untrustworthy. Deception and disingenuousness is generally the rule with those people.


lee sez, "#2 Those who are not old enough to remember Mogadore 30 years ago have not idea what the weeds used to be like. Not only was it nearly unboatable it also stunk. The belief at the time the White Amur's were stocked (by the Goodyear hunting and Fishing club and donations by sportsmen not the State) the general belief was the lake would be totally unuseable for recreation if the weed growth was not managed."

Been fishing Mog for at least 45 years as well as nearly all Ohio inland bodies of water. Yeah, the weeds were thick and they did'nt stink anymore then than they do today. I had no probs. Fishing was superlative and this was before electrics were allowed. Stinky weeds are actually a prob? Hahahaha, have some more quiche...
Mog has been there for how long? 70? 80 years? And suddenly after all that time the weeds began to be a prob only 20 years ago? Yeah, right.

lee sez, "#3 The weeds in Mogadore have always been sensitive to the warmer water temperature. I would like to see a study on the average water temperatures of Mogadore and Nimi in recent years compared to 30 years ago. It is my theory that if Glogal warming is for real, why would it not have some effect on local vegetation."

Hahahahaha.... I've heard it all. Warmer water temps in Mog? Is Brimfield in some sort of temp portal making it warmer than anywhere else in neo?
Weeds provide shade which has an overall cooling effect on a body of water.
The comparatively recent heavy blooms at Nimi, (within about the last 7- 8 years), has been the result of higher year around pool levels. Traditionally, Nimi had been drawn down every fall which greatly inhibited the weed growth just as it does at most other flood control res's.
And btw, photoperiod is a far greater contributing factor to veg growth than temps.


Agent says, "Kinda stuck here Lokt.

I am a sailboater... not as much anymore but used to frequent Sandusky, Bay Point at "R" dock. I NEVER looked down at other boaters or fisherman and I never will, I am not that type and Im sure your not singling people out..but there are some sailors on this sight.
Never made it to Nimi , In the sailboat that is.
I fished mogadore since I was 4, I remember the days of "Weednmore" very well.
If I remember right the idea was to do Amurs because it wouldnt kill all of the weeds only thin it out and leave alot for fish to use.
I completely agree with no complete killing and I LITERALLY HATE when people introduce things into our natural resources.
Remember however, it was us " meaning people in general" who got it to this point now."

Points well taken Agent. And no, not all sailors are knuckleheads. It's just been my experience that most are. Wanna hear a funny story? Years ago I was puttin' in at LaDue and a local sailing club was there. I noticed a beautiful, what looked like a hand made rowboat. One could tell by looking at it that it would have simply and easily glided across the water. After admiring/drooling over it for a few minutes, I turned to the owner and said, "Man, that's a beautiful rig". The owner, (who seemed a bit swishy), took a step back, placed hands on hips, looked at me very sternly, and in a very indignant and matter of fact tone said, "that is the rescue dinghy". He apparantly did'nt appreciate me deeming the "rescue dinghy" merely a "rig".
Hahahahaha, I couldn't help but crack up. I hollered at my buddy and told him to come over and check out the "rescue dinghy".

bassmastermjb sez," LOKT, I don't think you have it right.Mogodore is an Akron watershed that eventually becomes someones drinking water.If you live in Akron you've been drinking these chemicals for the past 8 years.Lake Rockwell supplies you with your drinking water and they have been dumping chemicals by the 55 gallon drums 3 times a year the past 8 years to eliminate the weed growth.They think it's an easy way out when the people of Akron complain their water smells or tastes bad.It's cheaper than the cost of an employee running the dredger to take out excess weed growth.The ODNR has nothing to do with it.Resevoirs are someones water supplies first and recreation comes second."

Not sure exactly what you're trying to say here but I'll give it my best shot.
First of all, Mog was built as an industrial res, not as drinking water.
Rwell is the drinking water and Akron has been warring with the weeds there forever in an effort to improve the taste of Akron water. They're idiots. Akron water tastes bad because half of neo sh#ts and pisses in it, not to mention a bazzilion cows, horses, chickens, and hogs, (agricultural and septic runoff).
All these nutrients run the algae count skyhigh. This is worsened by the elimination of weeds which act as a natural filter for suspended particulates.

Well, I'd like to continue this discussion but I'm at the library and their closing. Later.

 

Pretty good rebuttal...Please don't turn it ugly guys...

 

LOKT, you are correct in your response to my reply.REMEMBER: the same nice people in charge of Rockwell are also in charge of Mogadore.I just cringe when I see the Pontoon boat running laps in front of my house with (2) 55 gallon drums of (algicide?) and hoses shooting this crap off the back of the boat.Sure am glad I don't have to drink that water.........Mark

 

Ok, back again. There are a couple of more issues that had been raised that I did'nt address, (ran out of time on the library comp).

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadwatersEd
"#4... A heavily weed infested lake stands a much better chance of experiencing a winter fish kill. Rotting vegetation uses up oxygen under the ice, and low oxygen levels will kill alot of fish and most times its the biggest that die first.

Couldn't agree more.

#5 - I believe we call them the department of natural resources because they're educated in preservation and conservation. It may be frustrating when weeds are killed off, but they can literally kill off a lake, choke it, and turn it into more of a marsh than a fishable area.

On a side note, whatever happened at Nimi definitely hurt fishing for the 2007 season, but I believe (as I've stated before) it will actually improve it in the long run."

Emergent, (surface/floating vegetation), can have a deceptive appearance. Although the surface may appear to be solid weeds (or nearly so), once underneath the weed canopy the picture changes. The weed beds are more open than what they appear to be. The notion that weeds can turn a body of water into a marsh, (called eutrophication), anytime soon is bogus. For a res such as Mog or Nimi to eutrophy to the status of a marsh would literally take hundreds of years.

I'd like to give the Oh DNR folks the benefit of the doubt, but more and more it appears that money issues are paramount, just as in virtually all gov agencies whether fed, state, or local. Also, attitude in the individual and collective sense plays a bigger part. For example, why don't they enforce the littering laws? The causeway at Mosquito is a classic example. The dnr could post the causeway with a plain clothes officer and cite litter offenders. However, they don't. Why? The enforcement is to big a pita and the funds recovered are'nt deemed sufficient for the effort. That's why areas such as the 'eye river runs are saturated by plain clothed officers and the causeways are not. Much more money bustin' walleye snaggers. Same with the deer hunters at Berlin. There's more money bustin' guys with their cell phones on while hunting and carrying loaded weapons after hunting hours.

Head ed said, "4... A heavily weed infested lake stands a much better chance of experiencing a winter fish kill. Rotting vegetation uses up oxygen under the ice, and low oxygen levels will kill alot of fish and most times its the biggest that die first."



Water level, (depth), has more to do with winter kill than weed growth. In all the years I've been fishing neo res's I've seen one, count 'em, one incident of winter kill in public fishing waters. That was North res in the late '70's. North res is overall very shallow and although there are weeds they actually encompass a comparatively small percentage of the overall acreage. While true that decomposing organic detritus/dead dying weed growth/phytoplankton sucks out all the oxygen when sunlight is cut off for extended periods, adequate depth will compensate for this. I remember during the late '60's when the winters were exceptionally cold. Ice at Mog was 18-20+ inches. Heavy weeds during the summer, very thick snow covered ice during winter. Yet no winter kill since Mog had an adequate percentage, (in acreage), of overrall depth to compensate for thick ice/snow.

acklac 7 said, "There are only a handfull of natural lakes in Ohio (perhaps 3?). All other lakes/impoundents are man made. IMO we are responsible for maintaing these reasources as we are the ones who constructed them. At times it seems as though Mother nature is at a loss when it comes to fixing problems/alterations that we have brought forth."

There are far more than 3 natural lakes in Ohio. Rex, Turkeyfoot, Mud, Long, Nesmith, Springfield, Silver, Crystal, Wyoga, (Silver, Crystal, and Wyoga are just north of Cuyahoga Falls), and Punderson, are a few that come to mind. They all did just fine for thousands of years before we came along. Actually, they did better.

Weed eradication has been an ongoing thing ever since water/lakefront development and rec usage. Lakefront property owners don't want a bunch of "stinky weeds" along their property. They prefer a pristine beach/shoreline appearance. Lakeside commercial interests, (i.e. beer joints such as those found at the Portage lakes), want access to their bars cleared. Rec users want the weeds cleared so the can do their rec thing without those 'icky' weeds clinging to them even though most speed zones are located in water far to deep for weed growth. They even find drifting pieces of weeds intolerable. The dnr folks kowtow to these special interests for political, (translated 'money') reasons.
As a result, the environment/fish pops suffer dramatically.

 

I love that "hahaha have some more Quiche ." That's a beauty !

 

You can argue back and forth all day about this subject, but the fact is that the people who manage these resources are far more educated and informed than most people on here are. I am a former employee of the division of wildlife, and although i disagree with alot of their policies and actions, they know what they are doing. As a fisherman you may disagree with their management techniques, but you don't know what goes into making these management decisions, and to refer to them as "moronic" is simply ignorant.

 

Headwaters Ed sez, "As a fisherman you may disagree with their management techniques, but you don't know what goes into making these management decisions, and to refer to them as "moronic" is simply ignorant."

Actually, assertions such as yours without supporting evidence is "ignorant".
Although I'm not privy to DOW veg poisoning criteria, (and why isn't the public privy to this info? Such as where, when, why and at whose request/order and how much it will cost?), it usually isn't rockett science figuring out the motives. It's a process of elimination. In other words, why would anyone want the veg poisoned? Answer that ques and motives become evident. So in fact one can make a reasonable deduction as to why the res's are poisoned by herbicide. Correct?
If my assertions are incorrect, which one's? And why? Please explain DOW criteria for veg poisoning. The DOW "management decision" criteria you've supplied so far, (prevention of winter kill), is bogus and is merely a "straw man". A "straw man" is a debating technique used by one who has no rational/logical evidence to refute an assertion. So bogus assertions, (a straw man), are used that exploit the ignorance of others who are unaware of facts. The fact here being that winter kill is no issue and unless neo turns 'arctic', winter kill never will be an issue regardless of weed growth.
So, if this has been the publicly stated reason for DOW res poisoning, they've been lying.
Why?
Perhaps you could explain the real reason/reasons for res poisoning. In other words, support your assertions with facts-not "straw men".

 

All of the info you cited is available. I could argue this point to death with you, but i'm not going to. But i believe you have an agenda and encourage others to look into your points. The simple fact that you refer to vegetation control as "poisoning" makes me question what you have to write. I will not go into my credentials, but i am very schooled in the topic you have brought up, and will end my part by again encouraging people who have questions on the subject to educate themselves before judging ODNR or others on their management techniques. Contact ODNR, the EPA, or the Department of Agriculture. They will answer any questions you may have.

 

Headwaters Ed sez, "But i believe you have an agenda and encourage others to look into your points."

You are correct. My agenda is reduced herbicide use/habitat destruction. Gee, whatever gave you that idea?
And btw, your a cop-out. You say your "very schooled" on the issue yet you refuse to justify the veg poisoning with reason and/or logic. How come? You do your integrity no favors.
As for inquiring from the gov agencies you posted, what a joke. I've attempted to do so on this and other issues. They don't even bother answering e-mails and when phoned, one is shunted to a voice mail/recorder and calls are not returned.
So, the ques is, just what is their agenda and why the secrecy?

HW Ed sez,"..."will end my part by again encouraging people who have questions on the subject to educate themselves before judging ODNR or others on their management techniques."...

This is just the forum for this sort of thing and you are by your own admission, "very schooled", (you mean TRI-C is actually accredited?), on this topic yet you wimp out and refuse to inform us as to the DNR/DOW veg poisoning criteria/policy.

Oh well, you had your chance to set the record straight and choked. I suspect your a fraud and actually have no clue or like any other gov bueaurcrat the truth just ain't in ya'. To bad. I'd really be interested in knowing the truth about veg poisoning/eradication in our public bodies of water but it looks like it won't happen on this forum.

 

ok,time to shut this thread down before any more name calling is done.
Lokt,creo,et al,knowing you,i agree that you have an agenda and you and i both know what it is.the rare occasions you decide to grace us with your almighty presence here is when you need someone to "debate" with you.but it's not going to continue in this thread or any other if you can't keep your insults to yourself.