I felt Compelled to write this after my experience the last two weeks so this doesnt happen to someone else. I got busted last week for not having a GUIDE LICENSE. Now before anyone slams me I didnt know i needed one and felt horrible that I did not have one so much that i drove up to sandusky last Friday and got one even though i wont do a charter till next june. Just so you guys who are or want to be charter captians. YOU NEED ONE NO MATTER WHAT IF YOU CHARTERING ON LAKE ERIE FOR HIRE. Thats where i screwed up i thought it pertained to 6 pack charters with people owning there own boat. Me on the other hand dont own a boat and free lance but that doesnt matter. Just so you know the Fine is a MAX of a $ 1000.00 and 6 months in jail so that dont take it lightly. So please if you dont have one get one so you dont get busted like i did for being IGNORANT. I did talk to the Officer after the court hearing and told him that he should make this more public on charter forums and charter schools so more people are aware of this license he said that was a good idea and he would do that. I told him he would be surprised on how many people dont have them from the phone calls I made that are now getting them after what happened to me. Again im very sorry to the Ohio Division of Wildlife and i never intentially meant to do anything wrong. For $ 50.00 its a no brainer. Thanks for your time guys. Gary Zart Blue Dolphin
Charter Captian Guide License
blue dolphin
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617 Posts
Brian, In my experiences the CG only asks for your drug card when you are being checked, the testing is done by the consortium you belong to so I think you must be enrolled in a consortium to be in CG compliance. Year end reports are sent by the consortium to the CG to keep you in compliance.
You surely do need an Ohio fishing license to fish while opperating a charter. I don't understand why it is so hard to make a profit in this business. Maybe I should have said I don't know how to make a profit in this business.
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3,025 Posts
The New TWIC card will do away with the I-68 plus it is good for more than one year ? I thought I read 5 years but ? I haven't got mine yet!
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272 Posts
The TWIC card and I-68 are totally separate forms of ID and under circimstances, can be both required. It doesn't relieve any burden when checking back in w/US customs and cannot be used in place of a I-68.
The I-68 is for boarder crossings only. As a angler, you don't need one if you stay in US waters, only necessary when going into Canada. To put it more plainly, it means you are pre-approved with US Customs (a Div. of Homeland Security) for Canadian boarder crossings when returning to US.
and makes the check-in process simpler when checking in with a customs agent when returning home (US waters) from Canada after you, the operator, touched any "dry land" in Canada. Everyone who touchs land, private or not, must have a I-68. Might I add, if you didn't check-in w/Canadian customs, then there's no need to check in when returning back to US. This includes just crossing the boarder, fishing or cruising only, w/o making land.
TWIC is necessary in the event charter boats enter/dock near or possibly entering in a secured or sensitive area and pre-approves you when entering these areas. Only the operator of the vessel needs one. This card ID is NOT JUST for charter captains only, any land based transit entity (including private) that moves people or passengers, must have one as well. Charters boats are not actually defined as commercial by the US government, but being for hire that have passengers on board. The TWIC agency is also under the Div. of Homeland Security. TWIC stands for "Transit Worker Identification Credentials".
All charter captains are required even if you don't fish/enter/moor around a sensitive area. It's because you MAY and that you carry passengers for hire. It's easier then saying this one needs a card and this one doesn't. Require them all to need one is muck simpler. Private boaters DO NOT need a TWIC and the difference here seems to be if you have a USCG license and are operating under your license while have paying clients on-board vs. a private boater going fishing or cruising, even if you have people on-board, and yes even with shared expenses, makes no difference.
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602 Posts
I would encourage all Charter Captains to attend the annual Lake Erie Charter Boat meeting next year. I don't have the exact date, but I think it will be some time in March. Alot of useful information is presented, and keeps you updated with all changes made throughout the year. I have gone the last 5 years, and have learned something new every year!
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145 Posts
You fish 6 months and pay the loan 12 months. Its a great tax shelter. Do the math.
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663 Posts
There is a VERY good chance the TWIC card for charter captains will be repealed before you are required to have one in April next year.
You MUST belong to a drug consortium and be subject to random testing or you CANNOT run charters. If you use a first mate they must also be in a drug program.
You cannot guide out of a boat on Lake Erie in Ohio waters without a USCG license and a Guide's license from Ohio.
Accepting money to cover reasonable expenses is NOT chartering and has been ruled such in court. That means you can take money to cover expenses not a profit. So if you take 5 guys out and take $40 bucks from each you are probably going to be smacked for chartering without a license (unless you can prove you had costs of more than that for the day). But get $20 or so for gas and bait and no judge is going to think you're making a profit unless he hasn't priced gas lately LOL
Remember you are dealing with more than the Coast Guard. Questions contact the CG, ODNR, LECBA and Fred Snyder who usually hosts the annual Charter Captains meeting in the spring.
You MUST belong to a drug consortium and be subject to random testing or you CANNOT run charters. If you use a first mate they must also be in a drug program.
You cannot guide out of a boat on Lake Erie in Ohio waters without a USCG license and a Guide's license from Ohio.
Accepting money to cover reasonable expenses is NOT chartering and has been ruled such in court. That means you can take money to cover expenses not a profit. So if you take 5 guys out and take $40 bucks from each you are probably going to be smacked for chartering without a license (unless you can prove you had costs of more than that for the day). But get $20 or so for gas and bait and no judge is going to think you're making a profit unless he hasn't priced gas lately LOL
Remember you are dealing with more than the Coast Guard. Questions contact the CG, ODNR, LECBA and Fred Snyder who usually hosts the annual Charter Captains meeting in the spring.
Mike, Ohio law is sketcy because Federal Law trumps it....
United States Code - Title 46, Section 2101, Paragraph 5a, and 21a.
21a States - “passenger for hire” means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.
5a States - “consideration” means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.
Contrary to what Gju42486, sharing costs does not make it illegal to operate without a gudie license or a captains license... In fact, Federal laws explicitly defines that it is legal to share expenses.
... I can't post the URL (less than 5 posts) to the actual code but a google search for "United States Code Title 46 Section 2101" will take you right to it.
United States Code - Title 46, Section 2101, Paragraph 5a, and 21a.
21a States - “passenger for hire” means a passenger for whom consideration is contributed as a condition of carriage on the vessel, whether directly or indirectly flowing to the owner, charterer, operator, agent, or any other person having an interest in the vessel.
5a States - “consideration” means an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.
Contrary to what Gju42486, sharing costs does not make it illegal to operate without a gudie license or a captains license... In fact, Federal laws explicitly defines that it is legal to share expenses.
... I can't post the URL (less than 5 posts) to the actual code but a google search for "United States Code Title 46 Section 2101" will take you right to it.
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Wow, that's amazing. Thanks for the information, and your first post. To me, sharing expenses is just that, sharing expenses. I just don't see the guiding part of that and I was sort of wondering whether that's really "consideration." Stuff's too deep for me. Again, thanks for the info.
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1,139 Posts
George, When did they quit enforcing this: " Just another tidbit of info while we are on "strange" laws.........did you know that technically, the whole inner harbor in Cleveland is a no wake zone?" I know when I was a lot younger that they enforced it. The inner harbors used to be a safe place for the small boats to get out around the light house to fish for perch. Back when I was a kid, my dad and uncle would take us out in a 12ft aluminum deep V and catch a boat load of perch out there. Wouldn't want to try it today. We probably only had about 9" of boat out of the water. I know that if we were using spreaders that the one hook could be in the water while you baited the other. And sometimes the perch would come up and steal that minnow.
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663 Posts
hearttxp, there are several organizations working on the TWIC problem including LECBA. I have written and called Ohio's senators and my rep and all have said they think it is wrong (stupid) and Sen. Brown's rep called me last week and told me he was very "confident" charters would be removed. If it doesn't happen it will just be another example of government bungling,
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56 Posts
Don't forget your CPR Certification and your First Aid Card.
The list goes on and on......
The list goes on and on......
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7,888 Posts
More importantly how did 10-15 other guys not know as well.
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133 Posts
I'd guess that the one's that didn't should of asked any of the other 100's or 1,000's of Captains that did.
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133 Posts
My point was only to say my hats off to the Captains that got it right from the start is all; that's what I see as a more important issue. Not the ignorance turned into applause for the one or few that that didn't!
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1,837 Posts
Moonlighter you must lead a perfect life with no mistakes please write a book on how you do that and im sure youll makes millions and make sure you share the wealth. Gary Zart Blue Dolphin
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42 Posts
If we could get by arrogance of some it would be worth the time to talk about there ignorance, you have no clue what is important. What is important is Gary has shared his experence with the forum so others will not have a problem,GET IT!! Captain Keith Phillips
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