i wonder does the land owner have his land posted?

 

a couple of points here, 1st, landowner does not have to "post" his land in Ohio and as always, we always tell folks, wade IN the water, keep your feet wet, if you are wading, the landowners typically do not have a problem with you but blatently walking through an open field, you can be seen for miles and we always warn folks to just stay within the confines of the levy where you are not interfering with farming operations and most importantly, out of sight, out of mind!!

Winter is when we always have this happen when the fields are open and visable

Thanks,
Salmonid
Former President, Mad Men Chapter Trout Unlimited

 

posting your property does help. many of times i have wondered onto a different property not realizing. but true if your wading there is not much to be said, no one owns water> ie creeks, lakes,

 

The landowers do not own the water, but as i found out the hard way, they own the bottom of the river. I was cited for tresspassing because i was wadeing in the river. I had fished at this spot ever since i was young,and a new landowner made it very clear he wanted me cited. I didn't know of this law. The game warden told me that if i was in a boat i would have been legal, but as soon as my feet or even a boat anchor touched the bottom of the river, i was tresspassing. Just to let you guys know so youdon't find out the hard way, like i did, go up and knock on doors and get permission!

 

The landowers do not own the water, but as i found out the hard way, they own the bottom of the river. The game warden told me that if i was in a boat i would have been legal, but as soon as my feet or even a boat anchor touched the bottom of the river, i was tresspassing.

Most folks I talk to on the river about stream access rights believe that they are not trespassing when in the river. Many will argue their side, saying that I have bad information.

The statement about "as soon as my feet or even a boat anchor touched the bottom" brings up an interesting point. There are canoe liveries on the Mad. I have used Lippencott for weekend fishing/canoe trips in the past. Can they site the canoeists for trespassing as well? During low water and in shallow spots, the canoe, paddles, and sometimes feet touch the bottom. If they are going to site fisherman, why not site every canoeist that floats thru their property?

Its unfortunate that Ohio can't switch to the rights in Michigan & Wisconsin, where more of the stream is accessible to those who mind their own business and don't access the river thru or litter on the landowner's property.

 

Trust me folks, the vast majority of the landowners on the Upper Mad River do not care about wading or fishing the stream. The problems come when you are walking in there fields outside of the levy's. In all of Champaign County along the Mad, there are only 2 landowners who do not like wading fishermen. its there right to have folks cited if they push the issue. I might add that contrary to belief, the local county game officers are on "our" side here and do not want to cite folks for wading but if a landowner pushed the issue, they will cite you as its the law.
Want to not have a problem on the Mad, park at the bridge, get in, keep your feet wet and trust me, in Champaign county, you will not have any problems. Just know that if a landowner asks you to leave, please do so and not argue because that will get a area posted quicker then anything. We are truly blessed that the landowners along the upper Mad are considered the most access friendly in the state so please do not screw this up or thousands of fishermen will hunt you down and it wouldnt be pretty...

Salmonid

 

I beleieve the landowners have a agreement that allows anglers to wade and walk beside the river. All its takes is someone trespassing through fields , littering to ruin it for everyone

 

if the guy was so mad about his field he should of walked over and told the guy himself not to walk in it and the guy prolly would of said ok. that he didn't know it was that big a deal. why act a fool instead and call game wardens? what a big baby. if the field don't say no tresspassing how the heck you suppose to know your tresspassing? he should spend $5 bux for a few signs and walk his lazy butt over to his "field" and post the signs up if hes got his panties in such a bunch over someone taking a shortcut to the river. people baffle me sometimes.

 

Attutudes like this are the exact reason more and more private hunting and fishing lands are now off limits, no respect for others property!
Well lets see, do you hunt fish anywhere you want on private land just because it isnt posted?
Doesnt sound to me like he called the Game Warden but saw him and flagged him down. That was actually the smart thing to do. No reason for him to possibly get into a confrontation when the GW was in the area to take care of it.

 

fishaholic I understand your point but I on the mad the landowners that I have ran into have been extremely accepting of anglers. I think it would be much more effective to tell anglers to stay in the water and respect the land around it than to tell the land owners to post it. one way we have slightly more difficult access, the other we have no access.
this is a pressing issue on that river, I hope that fisherman hear about it a do everything they can to keep the landowners who allow us to fish there happy.

and we need to remember that most of the water there is not public, if I can remember it is only below rt 36 for a half mile maybe and about the same below pimtown road that is actually public.

bluedun
any idea on where this was, I can think of two areas that this would most likely happen but was anyone told the spot.

 

It's pretty simple, if you need to walk some distance, get in the water early and walk. I went to the Ash last week and fished water that most people don't. How did I do this???? Found an area that I wanted to fish, saw the posted signs, went up to the house, knocked on the door and when they answered, asked them politley, "May I have premission to fish on your property???" and to my amazement, he said "YES!" You are the first person to ask for permission, ever... I know have permission to fish that stretch of water when ever I am in town, I just need to call him and leave a message that I will be there. Let's face it, the laws are jacked up in Ohio about property and water, along with a lot of other things, save yourself the headache, either ask or just go somewhere else, it's that simple. They own it, you don't, just get over it and enjoy fishing. Peace.

 

no I don't go fish or hunt on private property. I am just saying that if it was my land and I was the one so PO'd about my land being disturbed I'd post no tresspassing signs. not that hard to do. couple signs and a few nails. just sounds like he was the one being the jerk about the whole thing and not the guy walking through the field. now if he warned the guy and the guy said whatever and kept walking in the field I might call someone. most fishermen would not get confrontational if you were polite. I really don't have that bad of a attitude unless someone would come at me with one 1st. you can always ask or tell someone nicely not to walk on your field and most people would say ok sorry I didn't know that and not walk there. they'd appreciate that more than the old fart jumpin around throwing a tantrum screaming and acting a fool at you when you don't have a clue what hes talking about cause he don't even have anything posted to warn the person not to walk there. use me for example, I never been to the mad before. If I went I might accidently walk in a field to get to the stream if didn't know the area well. how the heck am I suppose to know if its off limits if nothing tells me it is? that was the only point I am trying to get at.

 

bluedun
any idea on where this was, I can think of two areas that this would most likely happen but was anyone told the spot.

No, I don't know where this happened. I saw the posting on the Miami Valley Fly Fishing Forum. I posted a copy here b/c a lot of people ask about the Mad on this forum. Like you, I want to make sure we do everything we can to preserve the access allowed by the landowners.

 

For one, if you are going to a new place, you better know the local laws, rules, where you are going, etc prior to even getting in the car to make the trip. And why would they have to post signs to keep people out? I doubt you see many people walking around in some random yard that does not have a posted sign to tell people to keep out. What right does somebody have just to park along the road and walk through somebody's property and fish "private" waters anyway? No matter who you are or where you are from, you assume an area off limits unless you know 100% that you have permission, or are on public access.

This kind of crap always happens at my uncles house, who lives on an incredible stretch of smallmouth waters. We walk the banks picking up trash, always catch and release, and my grandfather purchased it a long time ago and this is going to stay in the family as long as possible. Sure, we don't mind the occasional fisherman. But do mind seeing 20-30 smallies on a stringer and them walking the property line back to the road where they eventually head towards their cars a couple of miles away. One of the fish was a large smallie who made his home in this stretch and we chased for 3 years unable to entice a strike. But it was this jerk who caught it snagging it off a bed only worried about what it would taste like.

I will never give up my access points, then some other idiot just might come in and ruin that for me too.

 

how the heck am I suppose to know if its off limits if nothing tells me it is? that was the only point I am trying to get at.

Its no different than hunting ,fishing regualations, its up to you to know the laws.
Same as trespassing, its up to you to know where you are and are not allowed to be. If you dont know and its not posted one way or the other you Stay Out, simple

 

I have been through this on the other sites. I duck hunt and hunt rivers so it is an issue all the time. If you are in the water with your feet touching the bottom you are technically trespassing. Now most people don’t care as long as you are not causing problems. If you are asked to leave just hit the road.

The land owner is within his right to ask you to leave his property even thought you are standing in the river. If decoy weights are touching the bottom you are trespassing. I know it’s kind of stupid but believe me this has been debated for years on the hunting sites. I have contacted a lawyer to get the true reading of the law and he confirmed to me the above.

Most land owners have no problem with you fishing or hunting the rivers just don’t cause problems.

 

ok next time I go to the vermilion I will call everyone within a 5 mile radius of the spot I am going to make sure I don't accidently step on there precious piece of unmarked land!!! lmfao. get real. I am not a hunter so I wouldn't go walk through properties to hunt and I would use my common sense and I wouldn't walk next to someones house or through someones backyard or something but in a field next to the river would be differerent. how am I suppose to know someone other than the metropark owns if its not posted. seriously if theres land next to the river and its not posted I will walk on it if I want until someone tells me otherwise or shows me a sign that says not to. if someone got a problem with that come to me and tell me so to my face and I would tell them the same thing. I would tell them that I am not some freakin mind reader. how was I suppose to know a stream bank is off limits if someone is lazy enough to not even post it off limits in the 1st place. its very simple. if you are upset someone walks on your property post a sign to warn people and they might not walk there! thats it. very easy. but we all know theres just some people in the world that got make a mountain out of a mole hill so instead they don't post it so that way they can come and scream at you like some sort of imbecile. in my mind that moron deserves people walking all over his property cause hes too cheap and lazy to post a sign in the
1st place. you say above to know all the laws and regulations of a river before I go fish it. I agree with that and people should know the laws and stuff but if I go on ODNR's website right now will it say if you fish that river please don't walk this spot or that spot even tho theres nothing posted to tell you otherwise cause this old guy will throw a fit and cry like a baby so please stay in the water when wading? I don't think it says that on odnr. last time I checked it didn't say anything to that effect. not trying to argue about it. just seen a simple solution to the problem and was stating my opinions.

 

i see both sides... if i owened property there i wouldnt mind people walking across an open field. as long as its not too close to my house. and they dont trash the place, but that may have already happen. who knows however i have met some land owners while hunting who just plain didnt want people on or near there property. becuz its theres and they paid for it, hey they own it ! its there right,but simply posting a sign does help, the odnr should get involed with the home owners. maybe they can work something out. trails signs ect,

 

I know for a fact from working with all the landowners along the Mad rive rthat they have long since given up on posting signs since they last about 1 week and the locals tear them all down. I know, Our TU chapter has bought hundreds of signs for landowners and even helped put them up, yup, 1 week later tore down, fences cut, litter everywhere, etc. I imagine that if you posted signs along any of Ohio's steelhead streams, that folks would tear them down as well, now , to make matters worse, the mad see steelhead stream like pressure 365 days a year, every year. Nothing on a nice weekend to see anywhere from 10-20 cars ( all fishing) at a few of the more popular spots. I might add that on the mad, there are no metroparks just so everyone knows and only about 1.5 miles of "public" water out of the 30 or so troutable water miles.
I have recd a couple of PM's and emails from this thread asking me why the Mad has such good access and how can we make other streams in Ohio as good as the Mad is?
Here are some points to remember, the Mad has been "officially" stocked since 1898, and has been ever since. With that said, the landowners have mostly been grandparents then parents and now sons who own the land and a few are in 4th generation ownership. In that time, the landowners have focused on farming the rich fertile river bottom lands as their priority while having a year round water source on the property making it worthwhile. These farmers have dealt with there parents and grandparents getting tired of posting signs so most do not since it is a full time job to keep them up.

Over the years, irrigation stopped and now most farms are just used for farming, the valley is one of the top yeilding counties year in and year out in the whole state and many of the landowners or past landowners include huge farming conglomerates from europe and germany with care takers on the farms who really dont care about fishermen as long as there not in the fields.

Another thing that adds to easy access is that the whole river is channelized with a heavy tree canopy, this makes it quite easy to wade the stream and no one would ever know you are there.

Another point to make is that the entire Mad river is very easily wadeable durring normal flows so its easy to get in the water and stay in the water.

Last point is since the early 70's groups liek the mad Men chapter of Trout Unlimited along with local clubs like the Miami Valley Fly Fishers, Central Ohio Fly Fishers, Buckeye United Fly fishers, the Northern Ky Fly Fishers and recently the Mad River Watershed group have worked feverishly hard day in and day out to keep appeasing the landowners and I personally have been involved with TU paying for over a dozen tree jam removals in trade for continued fishing access as well as several "bribes " of fine cigars, canoes, offering free guided trips for family members, continued trash pickups along bordering roads on specific key property owners front yards, several fences replaced as well as thousands of hours of phone calls and general greasing of the palms and helping landowners apply for grants and other things to help keep landowners happy. Its a tough road to hoe but many folks are working to keep access on this stream open and this is why the Mad is a generaly very access friendly. I hope this helps clear up a few questions. Bottom line is if you want your stream to have good access, you had better get involved with conservation/watershed groups and stat working with the landowners. A lot can be accomplished by investing time into building strong relationships with landowners.

Salmonid

 

Very well said, thanks for the post

 

Salmonid, I just happened across this post, even though I don't fly fish. I belong to a bass club that primarily fishes the Stillwater river. Our club is a well known and well respected conservation-minded club. We have monthly river clean-ups and work on many stream bank erosion prevention projects.

We have significantly more access to the river than the typical fisherman because of the things we do. If more fishermen want access to water, they should pitch-in and become part of the solution, not part of the problem (i.e. pick up trash-not deposit it, fix a broken fence-not cut one, put up signs-not tear them down, get permission instead of tresspassing, etc.).

I know several land owners who are sick and tired of people not respecting their property and they are cutting access to everyone but us.

Thankfully, we don't have quite the problem you guys have on the Mad, but I'd hate for anything to happen that would lessen my access to my local streams.

 

if they tear down signs and cut fences and leave everything laying around like salmonoid said then the people around there who own land are basically screwed then until they post police there to crack down on all the criminal activity or close the place down. a few other options left are laying down landmines or putting up electric fences or just sucking it up and getting used to it. Odnr could maybe post a map of the river and show whats off limits also.

 

Fishaholic, DNR does have an access map for the Mad River, located at:
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=TduotJM2a/E=&tabid=19478

It clearly shows the few true public access spots.


Mr. Smallie, good post and point!!

Salmonid

 

Fishaholic,
Let's make this simple ; it is the fisherman's (hunter,etc.) responsibility to know who's land you are on at all times and carry written permission to be there !!!!! Without that, you are tresspassing & subject to a fine. It does not need to be posted or mapped out or anything else. It is PRIVATE land. Simple enough for most, hard for others.
Sorry for the rant, but as a landowner, this crap gets old......... buy enough for my sons & I to hunt / fish & still have to worry about people tresspassing.
T

 

quite the interesting topic,
it would seem that most of the people who responded to this thread knew what the laws are, and for that matter what respect is all about. i have never fished the mad, i have just recently moved here from Frisco, Colorado. i have fished many rivers that boast an ass load of public access for many years and the one thing that these rivers had in common with the mad is private land issues. there is always some bit of river in the middle of nowhere that was private, and you had to know before you go!!! it doesn't matter where you are thats just the way it is...... pinch your barbs, fish like a man...........