I definitely noticed a lot more in the river last year and they were all over in Indian that day you caught one. I'm not one for killing fish you catch that you don't target like some people (throwing drum and gar up onshore) but I hope the apparent increase is isolated and not a trend that continues. I haven't talked to many people that go out in search of gar and I know I sure don't go out looking for them

 

They've been around millions of years. I don't think you have anything to worry about. If there is indeed a larger population than years past, it's probably due to a large shad hatch in the preceding years...leading to a healthier, more visible group.

I actually enjoy seeing them corral baitfish, as that means the baitfish are there...which is good.

 

This time of year shad and really any number of speices spawn
and its is not uncommon for gar to follow schools of bait fish
up these creeks. This is even more common when the spawn takes place during high water periods because it enables both bait and preditors to push
futher up stream. As long as you are in a area where the Ohio river influences
the tributarys gars will be present and lots of times in large numbers.
My fishing buddy loves to fish for them and he makes his lures out of small
peices of fine fiber soft rope its very effective.

 

Once watched a fishing show on the alligator gars of Texas, they are caught either on very small treble hooks or wire nooses because their mouths are almost entirely bone and teeth, these 2 guys got 1 that went 75+ pds of absolute DYNAMITE; man! The water flew! Hard part is releasing them, the bigger ones can break your arm if you aren`t fast getting it back...

 

I guess that is a good thing then. Like I said I've never fished for them but I have heard that lure made of rope thing more than once. Maybe if I'm skunked a few times out I'll see if I can make myself one of these contraptions. I saw the River Monsters where he goes after monster gator gar..now a gar that size I wouldn't mind catching lol

 

I guess I should clarify myself, haha. I'm not wanting to target them nor just see them in the spring in a spawn, I mean last year they were EVERYWHERE throughout the spring summer and early fall, and i'm not sure how they get to 4 mile unless they can climb up dams or they come from acton? It is a good thing to see them in the baitfish and active but I worry this might affect the bass spawn or other fish in my area, it's one thing to see them in the GMR which drains into the Ohio, but for them to make it ALL the way up indian creek in very abundant numbers and size(swear on my life a 4 foot gar swam by me in a deep pool on indian) and even into 4 mile which is above to dams? i know they are very peaceful fish, but i've seen with my own eyes a Gar beat off a bigger sized Smallie for a baitfish. All i'm curious about is if a large amount of Gar would affect the bass population. Thanks for the input guys, i have heard of what I like to call frayed baits working good on gar, I caught mine on a 3" twister tail and 1/8" jig head. Any more information or making me look like an idiot is appreciated, sorry for the long post again ha.

 

They are not migrating from the Ohio; they’re here, they’ve always been here and they’re part of the fishery. I don’t think I’ve ever seen one in 4 Mile but I wouldn’t be surprised to see one. The biggest one I’ve ever seen was in Brookville Tail Waters last spring. I’d guess it in the neighborhood of 4’ and fat.

 

A few gar pot holed up in your favorite holes can really hurt.
Carp and gar don't seem to have a very good survival rate
when I catch them??

 

A few gar pot holed up in your favorite holes can really hurt.
Carp and gar don't seem to have a very good survival rate
when I catch them??

Now there's a brilliant post. Kill the fish because you're dumb enough to think they affect the fishing.



To the original post, they don't hurt the fishery at all. They've been around for millions of years, you're still catching fish aren't you?

 

Grrrrrrrrrr.

Q: Has research been done that shows the effect of gar populations on “glamour species” populations?

A: I attempted to address this question a bit in my thesis. I found many sources from 60,70, and 80 years ago describing what a nuisance gars as a whole are, and in truth, many of those sentiments are still held today by most anglers and biologists. Still, I found much research that shows that while gars do eat the occasional young bass, nongame species (such as minnows) make up a large percentage of their diet. Much of the problem is in how you define “game species”. I don’t know if I would include panfish (bluegill, crappie, etc.) in that category, since populations of those fish don’t usually require the type of management that bass, walleye, or pike requie (stocking, length limits, closed seasons, etc.). Many of the studies found gars feeding on various panfish, as well as invertebrates such as crayfish. One thing that can get overlooked when talking about predation is that the limiting factor is usually not how good the predator is at catching its prey, but how bad the prey is at avoiding being caught. That holds true with gars as well as any predator. Gars will eat whatever prey are easiest to catch, and that can vary from one body of water to another. Some species of fish may be easier to catch than another, and fishes as a whole may be easier to catch than crayfish. The point is, if a young bass is going to be eaten by a gar, it would probably stand just as good a chance of being eaten by a larger bass, or a walleye, or pike, whatever. It’s not that the gar is a “super predator”, it’s just that the young bass (for example) can’t stay out of harms way.

 

Now there's a brilliant post. Kill the fish because you're dumb enough to think they affect the fishing.



To the original post, they don't hurt the fishery at all. QUOTE]

+1

 

I think the biggest threat they'd pose to bass wouldn't be eating them at all but just being another competitor for food sources. I'm basing that entire statement on the fact that when i catch bass in places i see a lot of gar, they haven't been as big as bass that i've caught in places where i have seen fewer or no gar. Just my 2 cents

 

Now there's a brilliant post. Kill the fish because you're dumb enough to think they affect the fishing.



To the original post, they don't hurt the fishery at all. They've been around for millions of years, you're still catching fish aren't you?

I have to disagree, carp are an invasive species to North America and are detrimental to any fishery they are a part of. And when the Asian Carp take over, I believe you will probably change your mind.

 

Now there's a brilliant post. Kill the fish because you're dumb enough to think they affect the fishing.



To the original post, they don't hurt the fishery at all. They've been around for millions of years, you're still catching fish aren't you?

I have to disagree, carp are an invasive species to North America and are detrimental to any fishery they are a part of. And when the Asian Carp take over, I believe you will probably change your mind.

 

I have to disagree, carp are an invasive species to North America and are detrimental to any fishery they are a part of.

Sounds like Horse$&#@! to me.

 

asian carp are newly invasive but your normal run of the mill carp have been in the usa since the 1800s, if they were going to be a problem, it would have already occured. like said earlier, gar have been around for millions of years, they have absolutely no detrimental effect to any fishery. they arent aggressive, they coexist, they do not function as an appex predator even though they prob could. go to bass pro shops and check out an aquarium, nearly all of them have some gar in them, if they were such a problem species, they would not be able to co-exist in a tank with other sport fish. killing them out of ignorance is a shame.

 

those of you that think a bunch of carp and gar in your favorite hole is a bad thing, you might be kind of right but for the wrong reasons. gar and carp thrive in hot, low oxygen water, they are often in areas with muddy bottoms. if your favorite hole is filled with them, chances are, their arent many bass their simply because its muddy and has less oxygen.

 

Now there's a brilliant post. Kill the fish because you're dumb enough to think they affect the fishing.



To the original post, they don't hurt the fishery at all. They've been around for millions of years, you're still catching fish aren't you?

Carp are a invasive species and gar most certainly can have a drastic effect on restricted waters. But take a chill pill because I never target carp or gar.
Name calling is small minded and has no place on this website.

 

We need to understand that each species, invasive or not, carp or gar, each fill a niche in the present day ecosystems. Tons or reseach been done on gar and Fallen is correct, they are not top predators, they are a lazy eater and f you think they are bad for a body of water, then I think we should reverse the situation and say that smallies are bad for the Gar population as they were latecomers to the world the gar have so long dealt with without some stupid bass coming along and eating all there fry. I say we gar fishermen unite and start killing off all the bass since bass are hurting the gar populations. ( of course that statement is not how I feel but its using your logic in reverse form)
Bottom line is I never kill any fish on purpose and I , as a "sportsman", respect what each species has to offer, for the carp its a strong , long winded runner that will test every inch of your equipment. Gar are hard fighters, excellent jumpers, offer sight fishing, and love the" I just saw the net" last second run which will break your line in a heartbeat if your not ready for it. Did I mention that from clean waters are EXCELLENT table fare??? The beauty of the gar is it has remarkable markings and the fact it is one of the 3 "dinosaur" species still around, ( Sturgeon, Gar and Bowfin)

I have never had the pleasure of catching a sturgeon but can not wait until that day.... Bowfin are stong fighters, also have fantastic colorations and are very catchable and readily take lures as do Gar.

I guess Id like to hear your definition of a game fish because all 3 species would certainly be on the top of most folks ( who give them a chance) list.

Sorry for the rant but as a "Fish Hugger" I like to stand up for those species who have gotten a bad rap. If your ever in SW Ohio, give a me a day and after you catch some big gar, youll change your mind, I pretty much would bet on it.

Salmonid

 

Well this is about the third of fourth time I've seen a gar debate on here. They're usually pretty cyclical and they don't seem to change anyones mind. I'll throw my two cents in here anyway.

Yes, the presence of too many gar can have a negative effect on the populations of other fish species. That doesn't really have much implicit meaning though because too much of anything can have negative effects. For example, humans absolutely need water to survive but if you drink too much water, your sodium levels will get out of balance and you could die.

The point is that in most cases, the presence of gar is a good thing and they're not likely to displace sport fish. They're an ancient fish that has been living in harmony with other native fish for a very, very long time. They're also a blast to catch. When hooked, they have a tendency to do a gnarly tail dance that's pretty impressive.

I've seen people throw them up on the bank because they think that they're "trash fish" or "they kill bass populations." I don't think it's my place to tell people how they should think or what they should do but I do think that it's pretty ignorant to render an opinion like when the facts tend to point toward the contrary.

 

Carp are a invasive species and gar most certainly can have a drastic effect on restricted waters. But take a chill pill because I never target carp or gar.
Name calling is small minded and has no place on this website.

Throwing a fish up on the bank is small minded and bragging about it has no place on this website. Just sayin'

I'm actually happy when I see gar. That means the bait is there and if the bait is there so are the fish I want to catch. There have been lots of gar in the water on some of my best days.

 

We need to understand that each species, invasive or not, carp or gar, each fill a niche in the present day ecosystems. Tons or reseach been done on gar and Fallen is correct, they are not top predators, they are a lazy eater and f you think they are bad for a body of water, then I think we should reverse the situation and say that smallies are bad for the Gar population as they were latecomers to the world the gar have so long dealt with without some stupid bass coming along and eating all there fry. I say we gar fishermen unite and start killing off all the bass since bass are hurting the gar populations. ( of course that statement is not how I feel but its using your logic in reverse form)
Bottom line is I never kill any fish on purpose and I , as a "sportsman", respect what each species has to offer, for the carp its a strong , long winded runner that will test every inch of your equipment. Gar are hard fighters, excellent jumpers, offer sight fishing, and love the" I just saw the net" last second run which will break your line in a heartbeat if your not ready for it. Did I mention that from clean waters are EXCELLENT table fare??? The beauty of the gar is it has remarkable markings and the fact it is one of the 3 "dinosaur" species still around, ( Sturgeon, Gar and Bowfin)

I have never had the pleasure of catching a sturgeon but can not wait until that day.... Bowfin are stong fighters, also have fantastic colorations and are very catchable and readily take lures as do Gar.

I guess Id like to hear your definition of a game fish because all 3 species would certainly be on the top of most folks ( who give them a chance) list.

Sorry for the rant but as a "Fish Hugger" I like to stand up for those species who have gotten a bad rap. If your ever in SW Ohio, give a me a day and after you catch some big gar, youll change your mind, I pretty much would bet on it.

Salmonid

Have to agree with that. Gar are extremely hard fighters and i would absolutely love to finally catch one. I took a couple trips last year specifically to places i knew they were there in numbers. I hooked into several of them but each time my lure was spit or they broke the line. Oh well maybe this year.

To clarify i have never thrown a gar or carp up on the bank because i respect each species. I do believe though that if a stream has a very large gar population then the bass will on average tend to be smaller than in streams with less gar. Makes since to me at least, more fish that eat minnows equals less minnows to go around, but i believe it'd be the same with any other predator fish that was in competition with bass for food not just gar.

 

Sorry for the rant but as a "Fish Hugger" I like to stand up for those species who have gotten a bad rap

I agree with most of what you said, but you should never try to hug a gar. They don't appreciate public displays of affection

OutdoorHub Mobile, the information engine of the outdoors

 

Carp are a invasive species and gar most certainly can have a drastic effect on restricted waters. But take a chill pill because I never target carp or gar.
Name calling is small minded and has no place on this website.

Kiss it on the lips fisharder:

 

Wow....I don't know how this got so blown out of proportion by everyone, it's kinda sad when all i wanted was some useful info and all i got was random babbling. I caught a gar last year (although small) and was happy if not excited about it, It was a fun catch and I wouldn't MIND catching one again, i just prefer runs of the bass and worried that Gar would overpopulate and compete with the bass forcing the bass out of my favorite streams. I don't want to kill off the gar, nor i do i know who mentioned that, nor have i ever thrown a fish on the shore? Either way though thanks for the info guys.