close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Tournament release boat

Discussion in 'Tournament Discussion' started by 10bender24, Jun 4, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 10bender24

    10bender24 Bass Angler

    80
    0
    661
    Directors

    If you run a fairly large circuit and have 100 + bass at the weigh in that get dumped at the ramp during the weigh in there is an alternative.The OHIO BASS FEDERATION has release boats for hire,they will get the fish back to the lake and away from the banks so they do not get harvested and tossed into hot grease.Our sport will diminish without the sportfish.This is a great concept and ODNR praises them.Feel free to call for more info.Alan DeVaughn 1-740-499-4122
     
  2. What scientific evidence is there that supports benefits of reducing overall mortality of released fish from a boat?

    Release sites are important indeed, and should include much thought to ALL the variables that support a successful long term survival.

    BUT you can do more harm than good if you worry about "frying pan" theories.

    Release boats can be beneficial, they can also result in higher mortality if not used appropriately, just as any ill thought release site could- they are not a cure all.

    While on this topic... :)....

    Overall mortality rates can be more dramatically impacted by the ANGLERS opposed to overall benefits to using a release boat.

    2-key components...REDUCE STRESS...INCREASE OXYGEN on held fish.

    Clean your livewells out after each use- Run areators all day- use ice to cool your creel ALL DAY- use metabolic rate reducing products such as PLEASE RELEASE ME, not something the HYPES the fish by Rejuvenating it!- recirc when around heated/polluted water- use a cull system- put A LOT of water in your bag prior to scales- use the provided system in place from your organization at line tanks!!!

    Get me past these issues and I can keep fish alive any event regardless of release site.

    Nip
     

  3. 10bender24

    10bender24 Bass Angler

    80
    0
    661
    Nip,

    Your points on anglers responsibility should be taken by all,and most do.I have fished several organizations/circuits and opens and the directors and anglers do a great job to have 0 % mortality.The OHIO BASS FEDERATION release boats have 3 huge tanks with huge fill pumps and several recirc pumps,if the fish make it to the boat in good shape there home free.It's not the bass anglers that the fish should fear,we catch and release.I had the opprotunity to take the release boat up to Misquito lake last weekend for the OBF region 3 tourny and there were a ton of fish caught,I do not have final results but i bet 45 boats brought in close to 500 fish for 2 days,I envy you folks up there.And several anglers,some probaly fish other circuits in that area expressed gratitute for the release boat.500 bass along the rocks at the state park,that's not a good thing.I assure anyone if the bass makes it to the boat in good shape they will be released alive in good shape out on the lake away from the general public.It's an alternative if you don't want to use it fine,don't. But it is available and we do use it at opens and other tournaments that wish to use it.
     
  4. This similar discussion has arisen in the past. To save my exhausted breath...
    http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=44578&page=6

    First- Bender I appreciate your offerings as both an angler and a director, and please accept my apologies if my previous post came across otherwise.

    One point of my last post was to discredit misinformation (and Mosquito was specific in the back of my mind).

    First thought logic (the enemy) allows one to speculate your comments to be true, especially ones who may not tournament fish.

    It further perpetuates the misinformation into a frenzy of inaccuracies that not only discredits the efforts you spoke of by our bass angling community as a whole, but further rationalizes "myths".

    Reality is, even the BEST efforts to reduce mortality of released fish are rarely 100% survival. The 24-72hr transition post release is where high mortality is best documented in research and where stress and oxygen plays a critical role.

    There is arguably some concerns arriving with that of a release boat. Makes us feel a a lot better, but it may not be overall impacting the numbers of success once thought...especially in a body of water like Mosquito.

    The middle of the lake is not an ideal place to release fish- 02 levels at the deeper depths can be poor, cover is all but absent, adaption to the depths are forced to an already stressed fish with little chance to gradually adapt.

    The bottom line- after extensive discussion with credentialed folks in the field researching similar, I beleive the Marina Bay to overwhelmingly be best suited for live release.

    1. It's off limits to their main predators- bass anglers
    2. It provides some of the most significant gradual depth changes practical to live release in the entire lake.
    3. The amount of stress and lack of oxygen reguired to get the fish to the release boat outweighs in overall harm (post event mortality impacts 24-72 hrs)
    4. The docks are ideal for stressed fish to fully recuperate. Research suggests a majority of fish won't feed during this period of recuperation.
    5. Release boats don't make fish survive- the care during their period of being held for up to 8 hours, and the time they spend intially after weight (in properly oxygenated and treated holding tanks) combined with a PROPER RELEASE area have much more significant impact.

    I only wish ALL anglers would indeed care for bass the way we claim, it just aint the truth though...and where our largest failures remain.

    Get guys focused on themselves and their efforts of two simple areas - REDUCING STRESS and INCREASING OXYGEN, as opposed to blaming the poor bank anglers with some corn on their hooks or a tournament director with a well thought out plan.

    Nip
     
  5. Nip and Bender,
    I believe there is scientific data on the subject, but so far the arguments here seems to be avoiding it. Why not show the references and point out the figures on the dependence of mortality on handling?
     
  6. Click the first link I provided King, there is some good stuff in that thread.

    As well, do a search online- endless info for you.

    These are exactly the folks I speak of Bender...crappie guys....:p

    Nip
     
  7. Yep, the crappie guys have read the surprisingly hidden scientific studies. Business is business I guess.:eek:
     
  8. BASS and FLW uses release boats, I am sure they did some studies and found that this is the best way to save our bass. I think the dead fish penelty at tournaments should be doubled. I do everything possible to keep my fish alive, but yes I still had some that didn't make it.
     
  9. King theres nothing hidden....

    It has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with science and education that works towards reducing overall mortality- both intial and delayed.

    Most importantly is educating folks such as yourself who are filled with "the enemy" towards bassers.

    Conservation and stewardship are a HUGE part of most all bass organizations-
    groups such as the OHIO BASS FEDERATION ( who has the release boat) spend countless hours and resources to benefit habitat, clean lakes, and care for fish.

    Again- tournament release boats are only as good as the release site and the amount of stress placed on the fish to get to the boat.

    I'm not bashing the use of release boats- but they are only a piece of a puzzle filled with variables that can positively impact overall mortality.

    The biggest factors that will ultimately effect overall mortality rates, both initial and delayed ARE.... REDUCING STRESS and INCREASING OXYGEN.

    BTW- Ladue events TEAMS are DISQUALIFIED for any dead fish!!!
    NOAA events we impose a NONTRADITIONAL ONE pound penalty...IT FORCES ANGLERS to REDUCE STRESS and INCREASE o2. Great point Rangervs and I totally agree!!!

    nip
     
  10. Fish4Fun

    Fish4Fun Relaxing.

    Some great points being brought up on both sides of this discussion.

    Nip makes some very good points on educating the fisherman. That fish may sit in a livewell for close to 8 hours if it had a rough day and wasn't cared for properly for those 8 hours its going to drastically affect that fish no matter what you do when its released.

    And you will see tournament guys that are really good about that and take great care of there fish during the tournament and when released and you will see ones that don't.

    Education of all aspects of the catch and release program from start to finish on the tournament day will play a key factor in the long term survival of the fish. So that it doesn't swim off after release and die in the next 24hrs.

    If the fish is stressed out and released in the middle of the lake with no where to go and recoup i would have to say its chances of survival are deminished.

    just some of my thoughts.
     
  11. It's obvious to me that even though opinions vary on how to best take care of the fish, that we are all genuinely interested in doing just that. I think the guy who catches the fish and keeps it in his live well for a number of hours has the most immediate and deciding effect on whether the fish lives an extended period after release. I've been dissatisfied with the live well system on my Stratos for a number of years but really didn't know what the cure was. Last year a member of my club told me about a product called an Oxygenator. He had used it exclusively for several years in his boat since it had only a fill/dump capability prior to getting the Oxygenator. He was quite happy with the results, so I purchased one at Bass Pro for $75. I hooked it up and have noticed a marked improvement in the liveliness of my fish at weigh in. I still run my recirc on timer to remove toxins generated from the fish's waste etc. There's no need to add "release" formulas, in fact those with salt can cause damage to the Oxygenator. I think dipping the fish in a "release" formula just prior to weigh in or putting them back in the lake is a big help though in restoring the slime coat etc. Now then---I'm surely no expert on this subject--but I did want to throw in my two cents just in case what I've run across may help someone. It totally makes me feel lousy to open my well and find fish dead or near death on a hot day. As much as I think Iaconelli showed his butt big time in last year's classic--I must say I empathize with his frustration at finding his well off and several dead fish inside.
     
  12. Nip, we do know that some just can't see through the dollar signs. Comforting to know that our sponsors here can and do.

    Nip -
    Before you put your notions of what other members think in print, you need to be aware that the readers do consider what you are writing and why you are writing it. And your notes are an expected method for a guy with your experience to make a claim that someone thinks a certain way or has said something in the past to support your claim.

    So far, you chosen against providing any "beef" to you and your buddies' claims. It is what you have termed (when convenient to your purpose) as 'hearsay'. Recognizing your lack of appreciation for scientific observation will be your first step toward presenting some useful information that includes the pros and the cons of issues.

    And I disagree (and assume most everyone does) with most of your arguments - for instance your claim - 'I am not bashing release boats' - correction; you did bash the release boats..... another feature of posting - what you wrote yesterday is still in print.
     
  13. King- I am missing your points.

    The linked thread provided previously contains a myrid of opportunities for you for the information you requested, again, and there is more than one page (actually several) from this discussion of the past:
    http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?t=44578&page=4

    Pre 2007 seaon I have solicited numerous DOW officials from the Cetral Office to District 3 to conduct studies specific to our events, mortality and delayed mortality. I'm still waiting for the bite. I am confident the numbers would be encouraging for our efforts.

    That would be the only true test for our reservoirs and our efforts and to my knowledge has not happened in this region.

    Otherwise I can only go upon the advice and information of professionals in the field studying similar (tournament mortality, movements and feeding patterns of displaced bass, and proven weigh techniques) and my direct contact with a well respected Biologist in field, Lane Gergley. She has done much work specific to tournament released black bass with very large venues in Texas and FLW.

    I indeed would hope my arguments are strong to persuade my intended efforts, I'd be silly otherwise!

    I took a vow to myself King to become an "earth warrior" if I was allowed to expand within this universe...I am only keeping that promise. At times it must be done loudly to perservere.

    Go fry up some crappie:p

    nip
     
  14. Nip,
    After reading those 62 posts I did not see one single reference cited as you had claimed. Perhaps you have a bunch that you can hot-link here. And that is my point, as was pointed out a couple of times in that other thread.

    I have reviewed a number of published the research studies in the past and so I am somewhat familiar with it. And it would be good to discuss the approaches and conclusions of the scientific studies instead of argument without real evidence. I am sure you can appreciate the need for that.

    Great idea on the crappie fry. :)
     
  15. King, the only thing left for you is prayer....:confused:
     
  16. Not to intrude into your conversations, but Id like to add my 2 cents. i have fished a decent amount of tournaments of the last 3 years and I have personally witnessed at nearly all of them release boats taking fish back out to the lake. Now these were not hired boats, but rather fisherman or tournament directors that actually made trips out onto the lake to return the fish at various parts of the lake. I think this is better than releasing them all at the ramp and more economical than paying someone to do so.... so there are efforts being made but there asre monetary limitations that are always going to be a factor.
     
  17. It sounds right to me badmthr. Just like post #1 indicated. Here's a 'study' from the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation that supports it. As near as I can tell, their Wildlife Department's "Fisheries Research Lab" performed and published the work.

    http://www.texs.com/bass_mortality_study/
     
  18. badmother- no intrusion, thanks for some fresh stuff!!!! Thats what this is all about!!!

    It is very practical what you spoke of. Especially if they are smaller venues.

    You run into the logistical aspects of a release with 100 teams (imagine this)- in turn, most of those variables result in additional stress to the fish. Not to mention most of our State Park Officer's would freak with the congestion we already attempt to minimize with staggard flight times (which also helps in reducing mortality).

    Our fish are handled ONE time in our process. From the treated line tanks in which anglers are forced water exchange from our limited amount of mesh bags, to bump board and into a basket. They STAY in this basket with no further handling to a treated and oxygenated tank for holding. Then directly back into the water of an approved release site nearby the weigh.

    The amount of time spent out of water or in a bag subject to initiate hypoxia is minimal.

    These specific efforts are the areas in which most delayed mortality rates have arisen - opposed to a release site.

    Utilitarian in principle- the overall positive impacts are greatest at these periods of handling, opposed to overall benefits of a release dispersion procedure (pending no HUGE pollutive/contaminant of release site!)

    nip
     
  19. And that would be opposite to what the study indicated is needed in order for tournament C&R to maintain the fishery.
     
  20. Go beyond the early studies of Gilliland and you will find more answers FAR BEYOND the link you provided. You should email Gilliland and see if he approves of our handling and release procedures though...that'd be interesting. We are doing much of what Gilliland recommends BTW.

    You started your seach- don't stop with your first googled page...if you need help interpreting the data drop me an email I can put you in touch with some of the frontrunners in the field to assist with your conclusions.

    ...or you could stop over and we could just wrestle:p

    I think that might be what you are really looking for with me...little to do with your knowledge of the topic and everything to do with disliking me.

    ...your not the first King...Ima bigboy and can handle it.

    nip
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.