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Crupi Wannabe
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I noticed something that really bothered me on a local river as I floated this past weekend.

A homeowner has been taking river rocks and using them to build a rock lined wall on his/her house.

Is it legal for them to do this? If not, who do I contact to get them to stop and get them fined?

This obviously is not good for the river and I'm ticked off.
I want the rocks back in the river...
 

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Ak used to see this all the time at Alum at night. Send him a PM. He may know how to report it.
 

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If the homeowner owns the property that includes the river bank (very common) they also own the bank and ground beneath the river. If this is the case they may have every right to remove stones on their section of the river. The only thing I would think that may prevent this is if there is a protected rock or animal species there may be rules.

If they are just going up and down the river taking stones I would say they defeinately have a problem. I would follow the advice and call ODNR first to see what they say.
 

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Is he taking them from the river or the bank? Alot of times rocks are put along the bank to keep it from eroding away. I could see a real problem if he is doing that, even if its on his property. I would still contact someone and see what the rule is about it because taking good sized rocks from an area can effect how that area is washed out or silted in and really cause habitate problems in that stretch for the aquatic life.

Jake
 

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Crupi Wannabe
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I believe he is taking them from both the river and the bank - as far as I can tell from only behind his house. I'm going to call ODNR and see if they can help.

Even if he "owns" the rocks I still think his taking them to build a wall is ridiculous - and pretty stupid as the stretch of river behind his property is going to ultimately suffer.

This particular stretch of the river is taking a beating from landscaping, tree clearing and now this. Banks are beginning to erode due to ingnorance...
 

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Ultralight - I am in agreement with you; however stupid is as stupid does and the laws aren't always written properly to protect stupid people from themselves:D

The guy probably has no idea what potential damage he is causing.
 

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If the homeowner owns the property that includes the river bank (very common) they also own the bank and ground beneath the river. If this is the case they may have every right to remove stones on their section of the river.
For this most part this is true. However if I understand things correctly the COC has a 20ft (maybe more) Riparian corridor/easement along all navigadable streams within the city. Thats right, the COC owns the Scioto ;)(not sure about the other waterways though).

This all came about due to a random encounter with a property owner while I was fishing on the Scioto. I asked him if I could fish on his property, he laughed and said "Im the wrong person to ask, this isn't my property..my property line ends some 20-30 ft back in the woods..The City of Columbus owns the both sides of the bank within the City limits.

Also keep in mind that this will likely not stop people from calling the police and the police subsequently arresting you for Trespassing: If a wealthy homeowner calls on you your likely going to have to leave or be arrested..Thats why I wan't to carry a copy of the corridor arraignment with me at all times..But for some reason I can't find any mention of it Online :(

On the question of Legality: If he is removing the rocks from the water it is 100% ILLEGAL. The clean water act forbids any un-approved modifications to any moving waterway. Removing anything from any river is essentially modifying it, and therefore illegal (whether you own the river or not). Now if he is just taking the rocks from the bankline thats a whole different story. As I said earlier the COC has an enviornmental corridor that was put in place so ppl wouldn't destroy the crucial riparian area surrounding the river. However alot of homeowners either don't care, or don't know about the corridor, and just treat it as if they own it! :(

UL, while you didn’t mention where this all was taking place, I know exactly where you are talking about. And it has taken somewhat of a beating, but for the most part the homeowners/builders have left the immediate riparian zone untouched, except for the west side. I’ve been on the verge of calling the EPA/DNR for sometime due to the destruction that’s taken place…But what I saw last week pushed me over the top. Now the construction companies are clear-cutting straight down to the water line: Absolutely unacceptable and Illegal. It will stop fast...I guarantee it ;)
 

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Loving Life
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:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Even if he "owns" the rocks I still think his taking them to build a wall is ridiculous - and pretty stupid as the stretch of river behind his property is going to ultimately suffer.
I know, it's a crying shame a homeowner does with his property as he pleases....
:rolleyes:
 

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Where was this happening? It could have been someone who put the rocks on their bank for steps or something, and then they washed into the river over the winter. I am only saying this because my buddy had this happen and over the last couple of weeks the got them back out of the river.
 

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MLAROSA-

Your sarcasm has been noted....Good one....

Seriously - do you not understand the concerns presented in this thread from an environmental standpoint.

Should property owners have the right to do with their land as they please if it negatively affects land that others own? If so, please explain your thoughts as I need to learn more and would be grateful to hear your point of view.

Cheers buddy.
 

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I agree with JamesT. Homeowners sometimes think they have the right to do whatever they want on their property but that doesn't always mean its the right thing, especially when your talking about something that is going to adversely effect areas outside your property lines. Too many people either don't care or don't have the knowledge to understand the ramifications of what they are doing. This will be the same guy that will start complaining when his land is eroding away and wonder why. Don't worry though, he will have a nice stone wall!

Jake
 

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Ahhhhh…..it’s easy to pick apart a homeowner on a fishing site about a few rocks. I can think of many bigger issue to take on that would far outweigh any rocks a home owner may take. Try taking on a corporation or question how one drives to the creek in their smog making machine before someone’s rights are questioned.

A fishing site is no place to determine if a home owner has the right or not. If one really wanted to know one would ask the ODNR or local officials.

I’m as much for the environment as the next person but I’m not going to question if a homeowner has the right or not on a fishing site.

Homeowners have a tough enough time as it is. Taxes are rampant and keeping a job just to pay the mortgage is a challenge for some people. Take on a corporation who dumps more crap in the river and streams then any homeowner ever will. Corporations gladly pay the fine because it cheaper. You don’t have to look far for that…take a look at the huge chicken farms.

I saw an entire section of the Little Miami near Cincy get completely turned around by a gravel company but a homeowner can’t take a few rocks?

Oh please!!!! There are too many bigger fish to fry. Follow acklac7 lead and take on an issue (such as construction company’s clear cutting down to the bank) that really makes a difference.
 

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Most of the waterfront homes on the Scioto and Olentangy are huge and the property is unbelivably expensive.

What really ticks me off about the whole thing is that the landowner is probably filthy rich and could easily afford to purchase the stone that he needs for his project and have it trucked in....however he'd rather cut corners and save a few bucks which has detrimental effects towards his neighbors and the river eco-system.

Heck...even if it isn't a big million dollar home owned by someone with the cash on hand to pay for the landscape project...the waterfront land itself is likely worth tons more than he paid for it....take out a home equity loan and do things the right way.
 

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Crupi Wannabe
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
First, Yankee - you need clarification. It is not a few rocks. If every homeowner decided to do this, the river would be really screwed up.

And while I do have interests in taking on corporations that pollute rivers, I don't discriminate. Disrupting fragile ecosystems is bad in all forms - large or small. I take on individuals that leave candy wrappers and lure boxes. They are small groups but piss me off just as much as those corporations that dump in the river.

And while a fishing site is not the end all of this matter, it is:
1) A way to expose problems with waterways that others on the site travel. Perhaps, this exposure will make people more aware of what is going on around them as they float rivers.
2) A fishing site is a place for people with similar experiences to share them. I was able to obtain leads as for the right people to contact - which was the goal of my post.

This is an issue that deals directly with fishing - if you cannot see the correlation between destruction of rivers and quality of fishing, I don't believe you are telling the truth. You are obviously smarter than that....

As far as homeowners having a tough time - I tend to agree. In fact I am too poor to be a homeowner...Let alone on the river. Let me assure you that this homeowners property is worth well over $500,000. I don't need you or that guy telling me what it is like to not have money. That homeowner didn't buy that land having a hard time keeping a job.

If you have some corporations that need taken on b/c they are destroying fisheries - post them - ON A FISHING WEBSITE - and you may find like minded people that will contribute to the efforts to stop it.

I believe acklac and I share common ground and are equally irked by groups, large or small, that destroy resources.

And yes, there are bigger fish to fry - so instead of berating this concern, why don't you address some of the bigger problems to generate teamwork to solve them.




Ahhhhh…..it’s easy to pick apart a homeowner on a fishing site about a few rocks. I can think of many bigger issue to take on that would far outweigh any rocks a home owner may take. Try taking on a corporation or question how one drives to the creek in their smog making machine before someone’s rights are questioned.

A fishing site is no place to determine if a home owner has the right or not. If one really wanted to know one would ask the ODNR or local officials.

I’m as much for the environment as the next person but I’m not going to question if a homeowner has the right or not on a fishing site.

Homeowners have a tough enough time as it is. Taxes are rampant and keeping a job just to pay the mortgage is a challenge for some people. Take on a corporation who dumps more crap in the river and streams then any homeowner ever will. Corporations gladly pay the fine because it cheaper. You don’t have to look far for that…take a look at the huge chicken farms.

I saw an entire section of the Little Miami near Cincy get completely turned around by a gravel company but a homeowner can’t take a few rocks?

Oh please!!!! There are too many bigger fish to fry. Follow acklac7 lead and take on an issue (such as construction company’s clear cutting down to the bank) that really makes a difference.
 

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Multi Species Angler
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After reading this entire thread there is only one thing that comes to my mind:

"stick and stones..............................."

Who thought they could be so significant?

CG
 

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The banks of rivers and streams are being refortified all the time due to erosion of the bank and the affects it has on the wildlife of the waterway. Why do you think it takes all kinds of surveying, permits, etc. if someone wants to put a dam on even the smallest stream? You may not think its a big deal but it could turn into one in a matter of years.

I work for a chemical company and we discharge water from a cooling tower into the Scioto River. Its nothing more than running water through a jacket to control the temperature of the reaction, it never has contact with any product. We ran into a problem with the EPA when they tested the water and found that the zinc levels were above tolerances. The company spent untold money only to find out the zinc was put in the water by the city of Columbus to help condition aged water pipes, no fault of our own. It isn't 1920, mills aren't dumping waste into every river and stream they can find. EPA standards are higher than ever. This is why companies join environmental stewardships and such. Saying homeowners have it tough is nothing more than a half-hearted excuse. How much you think it costs for a company to dispose of hazardous waste properly? We dispose of 10,000 gallons of "hazardous" waste every month through a hazardous waste management company. I can tell ya this, its alot more expensive than a stone wall, and well worth every penny to protect the streams and rivers around here.

Jake
 

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I’m not saying the homeowner is in the right or wrong. But I certainly don’t think of a home owner rights as a halfhearted excuse.

Reread my post, I didn’t say the environment has no place on a fishing site.
I said “a persons rights” should not be debated on a fishing site let alone tried and convicted. I don’t mind debating the environment on a website but not someone’s rights.

Let’s take a deeper look at the alternatives and what appears to be good may in fact not be. I’m just saying think outside the box.

Rock quarries??? Yeah, a homeowner can get their stone or rock from one of the many rock quarries in this country. In fact there are some along the Sandusky that discharge ground water into the tribs that feed it every day.

Rainwater that falls in and around a rock quarry can become contaminated with sediment, oil, grease and other materials.

Runoff from stock piles can become caustic (rot away or dissolve). The contaminated water can harm the environment, pollute creeks, rivers and lakes even contaminate the drinking water.

I’m not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone. My posts are not directed at any one individual. Just my 2cents.
 

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Rock quarries??? Yeah, a homeowner can get their stone or rock from one of the many rock quarries in this country. In fact there are some along the Sandusky that discharge ground water into the tribs that feed it every day.

Agreed but the difference is...that rock quarry is already there and the damage has already been done. This homeowner should be using the stone from that quarry rather than causing new damage to the river in front of his home.

I'm all for protecting the environment and I always take the necessary steps to leave an area where I fish, usually, even cleaner than how I found it. I'm also a proponent of living a good life and having nice things. So I say, if you wanna build a decorative wall in your backyard, fine. Just do it in a way that affects the environment minimally or at least get your stone from a quarry thats already dug.
But hey, perhaps he could build a wall out of recycled newspaper and aluminum cans. (Little Friday afternoon sarcasm there :D )
 

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Agreed but the difference is...that rock quarry is already there and the damage has already been done.
Ahhhh….ya got me there dKilla….I can’t argue with that logic:confused: .

Anyway’s……. Ultralight if you don’t mind post the outcome. I’m curious myself as to what the ODNR has to say. Often we turn a blind eye to environment damage because we just don’t want to get involved. Don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate individuals such as you looking out for the environment. More should.
 
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