Recent Observations

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by andyman, Jul 2, 2008.

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  1. When I was 14 years old, I shot my first deer. Great day in my life. My Dad picked a tree, set up my treestand, and plopped me in there to sit and wait. I shot several more deer over the course of my teenage years.
    But when I was 19 years old, a MUCH, much better thing happened to me. I grabbed a map, went out on my own, found a decent spot, set up all my own stands, and after a couple months shot another deer. Not nearly as big as some of the other ones I shot, but it was MUCH more significant because I was the one who did all the work, trialed and errored my way to finally shooting a deer, without my Dad setting me in a stand that he had picked.

    What's the point? I think that attitude of the joy of discovery and the satisfaction of actually doing the work yourself....is a concept that elludes most people these days. And most certainly that attitude seems to escape the vast majority of posters on this particular site.

    I was sitting here thinking about that, so I decided to do some simple math. On the first page of the Central Ohio Fishing REPORTS, there were 26 threads when I started this one. 7 of those were actual fishing reports (Went out yesterday and caught .....) 19 of those threads however, were "hey, I'm looking for a spot to do......does anybody know where I can....." Friggin' 19 out of 26 threads or roughly 75%.

    Does anyone else find that odd at all? I mean, I believe this section is intended to be for fishing REPORTS.

    To take it a step further, I was raised in a manner in which if you went up to a complete stranger and asked him where he hunts or where he fishes, the dude might just slap you up side the head. It just wasn't the kind of information that one ASKED for.
    Don't get me wrong, lots of spot information got shared, but it was always offered and never asked for. Big difference.

    The PM's that I received in the last 2 days have been overwhelming. "Hey, tell me where those ponds are". "Hey, you don't know me, but I need a new spot to fish..." I think out of 18 different guys PM's and emails, only 5 or 6 even said "please" or "Thank you".
    It was a stunning realization of the sense of entitlement that has been fostered here over the years.

    I surf more than a couple fishing boards. ALL of them, with one exception....here, respond to such requests pretty much in the same manner.
    "Hey, if you need a new spot, then go get yourself a map, some walking boots, and start exploring."
    There are many offers to come join along, or PM's sent to a guy or kid who is completely new to fishing, but almost never just, "Hey go here and throw this"
    And reports aren't "Hey I caught 3 saugeye on the east side of Alum up near the ......" But instead they arefilled with MUCH more useful info. Information like "Almost all of the fish I caught this week were in 5 feet of water, holding on current seams, and were hitting anything that was fished slowly on the bottom."
    THAT'S the kind of information that someone could apply to almost ANY body of water, not just the east side of lake X.
    It's the old "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, or teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime" adage. There's just an overwhelming amount of feeding going on, and very little learning.

    So where did the sense of discovery and satisfaction go? Does everyone feel like it's better to be led by the hand, and walked into fish? Or are there people who actually would rather LEARN through the trial and error of doing it themselves, armed with some basic information about what has been working in other lakes?
    I just don't get it. Unfortunately, I think it's a sad commentary on our society as a whole. Now, now, now....gimme, gimme, gimme....tell me, tell me, tell me. But it's OK, because I'll tell you too.

    75% of the reports aren't even almost reports. they are flat out "where" questions. And the majority of the reports aren't useful in the sense of being able to apply the information elsewhere, they more just "Hey we slammed 'em on Griggs tonight. Here's the pics"

    Just something to chew on for a bit. I can just about guess what replies will come from which people based on their previous posts over the years, but I just thought it would be interesting to discuss it anyway.
     
  2. Mushijobah

    Mushijobah Urban Angler

    A lot of kids these days were raised on video games/TV. It is hard for them, as young and even grown adults to begin liking something or become interested in something that they have absolutely no background in. The creation of an outdoorsman is usually a lifetime event. Sure there are many people who have learned to recently enjoy fishing, but they simply do not have the background to make certain assumptions or educated guesses of how a fish (or any wild animal) may behave. The more recent phenomena of ADD positive, 'gimme gimme now now' kids certainly doesn’t help the matter, as they use the same 'easy way out' techniques as they have their whole life. It seems there is no right way to raise a kid these days, some just seem to be privileged enough to have a good parent who accepts nothing less than excellence, or at least thoughtfulness.
     

  3. andyman thats a very sad,yet very true observation you've found on today's society as a whole.I never knew the extend of it until you posted such.But if we all just take the time and look over the post on here you'll see the revelation.It is sad indeed.I.myself can be included in the stats as I asked for help in one concerning a hard lake to fish .I recieved numerous advice on the topic and will employ the suggestions offered but I still see the many"wheres the exact spot,what color,what time,how do I get there" on here like you have observed.Thanks for maybe bringing it to light for many.
     
  4. The thing that some people don't understand is that not everyone has had their dad's or anyone take them fishing. Some of us randomly picked up the hobby without any real prior training. It is possible to get started without any help at all but it's a long frustrating process that will stop most people from ever getting too far.

    I've been trying lure fishing these 2 months. I might be lucky enough to find time to go out to a lake maybe 3 times a month at most with only about 3 to 4 hrs to spend there. I finally had the feeling of reeling in my first bass the other day. Only he got off right before getting to the shore.

    A few weeks ago someone looked at it and kind of whispered something that sounded like "does that idiot think he's actually going to catch any fish like that". Pissed me off but I didn't say anything. Maybe my worm was hooked wrong. Maybe my slit shot was too close to my bait. I'm not sure what the problem was because he cared more about insulting me and less about correcting me. I have made a few changes since then.

    Maybe there should be a spot for new fisherman to post? Therefore we aren't taking up space for some of the more experience ones.

    For now I've decided to step with community ponds. After I actually start pulling in some fish I'll began venturing out. I just want to know the feel of how the fish bite and what it is that they want.
     
  5. SwollenGoat

    SwollenGoat Scourge of Hoover

    Andyman you pretty much summed it up right there. We live in a society that has been twisted to cater to the masses who want it "right now". Fast food, credit cards, buy now - pay later. Damn the consequences, as long as we can have it RIGHT NOW! However, don't think this is something unique to humans. We are much like every other animal on this planet. If we find there is an easier way to get something done, we'll remember to do it that way next time. Just like a deer who finds a meal in someone's garden, or a dog or cat who finds that knocking over trash cans will result in a quick treat. Once they "learn" this behavior it will become a habit. Even if it is a dangerous or foolhardy one. ;)

    But before you condemn them, realize that not everyone fishes for the same reasons. On top of that, nowadays most are doing their best to make ends meet and have very busy schedules. Used to be you didn't work weekends, now Saturday is just an extension of the regular work week for a lot of people. I have several friends that enjoy fishing, they just don't have the time - might get our 3-4 times a year if they're lucky! Every once in a while they get a chance to go fishing and I'm guilty of telling them a few good spots or I invite them along and do my best to put them on fish. I guess I'm not teaching them much, but I also know they don't/can't spend the time on the water to learn what is necessary to be successful. I guess maybe the amount of time and effort spent is what differentiates a dedicated "angler" vs. someone who "fishes". I honestly don't know... :confused: Personally I enjoy the challenges associated with fishing. I can go out and come back skunked and still say I had a good time. While I'll offer up a seat on my boat whenever possible, sometimes I prefer to go alone just to figure stuff out and/or experiment. (Without the pressure of trying to make someone else happy.)

    I agree with and understand much of what you said, but OGF is just another fishing website, it isn't the end-all-be-all of fishing information. Personally, I don't post up every last bit of information on here - I have a core group on OGF that I communicate with all the time. Often, we share information through PM's etc. without announcing it to the entire OGF world. I'll go out of my way to help people to a point, but there is a fine line on how much I divulge and to whom. In reality, there is a lot of good stuff posted here on OGF to help anyone catch fish, but its only a small piece of the big puzzle. ;)
     
  6. Great observation I was lucky enough to have a country paper route as a kid sothat introduced me to some farm ponds in the New Albany area also spent my weekends on Erie with my Grand Parents at a very early age learning how to fish from baiting hooks to pulling snags loose and patience.I consider those parts of my life as being very blessed I now read here and ask questions still learning and gathering info. Which is the way i view this site ongoing knowledge at our finger tips. I love the feeling of finding my own fish or puttting someone else on fish. With the price of fuel I havent gotten out nearly as much I have in yrs past I wait till my fishing partner is ready to go or find someone else that is ready to split the cost of the fuel. The learning curve could be very costly for a beginner and may say the heck with it if not put on fish and has to fill a f-150 with fuel. The Erie guys to many to mention along with misfit, swollen goat, crawdiddy use to,fishslim and countless others put out great reports and tell where they came from such as points, flats out of the timber or off the breaks which i think is outstanding. If a pond is given the asker still has to ask for permission and then be able to keep permission. When the questions are asked and replied to im lke sweet here is more info now am I able to apply this at some point. Also where is the hot musky bite at currently i may give it a whirl this weekend.
     
  7. Good post Andyman, and good points.

    But you said it yourself. This board is for fishing reports, I think you should have posted this in the General Discussion - The Lounge

    Benny

    PS. We differ in many ways. I'm the type of person who shares all of my best spots with those in need. I LOVE helping others catch fish, and always expect nothing in return.
     
  8. imalt

    imalt Banned

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    i agree with benny not all of us have been taught every fishing technique and could use the advice. If you choose not to give advice that is your choice but dont be critical of others for giving or asking info. Asking honey holes is wrong but asking techniques or strategies is different. Sorry we all cant know everything like you andyman. I didnt start fishing until last year and have a lot to learn and have learned alot on my own and by observing others. I didnt have anybody to teach me. So people that offer me advice I appreciate.
     
  9. seethe303

    seethe303 Senior Executive Member

    so what I am getting from this discussion is that "kids nowadays" want to be told where/how to fish, and the "old school folks" wouldn't help anyone with anything. I don't think either one is worse than the other!

    edit: this is not a troll, k thx.

    I am just trying to point out that a lot of this is a matter of perspective.

    It is easy to be helpful to someone looking for a spot without giving them exact latitude and longitude coordinates. While I do agree that a lot of our culture now is demanding we should offer advice to people instead of ridiculing them, maybe not exact spots, or even bodies of water, but there are other ways to help people, while encouraging them to explore and learn on their own at the same time.

    /doesn't play video games
    //rarely watches TV
    ///subversive
     
  10. misfit

    misfit MOD SQUAD

    i've noticed a recent rash of thread hijacking,unnecessary bickering,trolling and other behavior lately.that is not what this site is about.and whatever the motivation for this thread,it is not an invitation to do more of the same.
    please remember that before replying,because as mods,we tire of warning people about violating site rules,closing threads or taking other actions simply because some people feel the need to create controversy.
     
  11. crittergitter

    crittergitter Multi Species Angler

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    My father doesn't fish or hunt. I do have an uncle that took the time to take me fishing and showed me a lot. I mostly taught myself to hunt. The information you need is always available...........the information you want may or may not be. However, the answers you want are not always going to lead to you catching more fish.

    CG
     
  12. Andyman is a smart guy. He knows his stuff on here, that's for sure. He's the type of poster that I WISH gave more great advice on this site.

    I can also understand what he's saying. We live in a world of instant everything. I think the only exploring my generation does is on Google Earth, and I'm as guilty as the next person. A simple thanks, or Please can do wonders at times.
     
  13. Lundy

    Lundy Staff Member

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    It's not even winter:( :)

    If some of you ever left your house you would enjoy life a little more I would think.:)
     
  14. I fall in to this school of thought. Things I learned on this site, especially when I first started trolling in earnest 3 years ago, are invaluable. It's hard enough to find the time and money to engage in this hobby, when you've got a family and career. People like Kgone, Hetfield, Got One, Erie Dolphin, fishinguy and others helped my father and I get back into walleye fishing on Erie. I've got more cell numbers in my phonebook now that I ever imagined. And it all started with me, being a noob, and needing to be handheld and forcefed at little bit at the beginning.

    If you want a good-old boy club, go to one of the several other fishing sites you mentioned. Or join a local club. You'll get plenty of that there. You can feel free to act in snobby, elitist, exclusionary ways and establish your own selective cliques. You can even drink beers and blame all the world's problems on "kids these days" and "video games" with other curdmudgeons of like mind.

    You talk of others with a sense of entitlement? Pot. Kettle. Black.
     
  15. I fall in to this school of thought. Things I learned on this site, especially when I first started trolling in earnest 3 years ago, are invaluable. It's hard enough to find the time and money to engage in this hobby, when you've got a family and career. People like Kgone, Hetfield, Got One, Erie Dolphin, fishinguy and others helped my father and I get back into walleye fishing on Erie. I've got more cell numbers in my phonebook now that I ever imagined. And it all started with me, being a noob, and needing to be handheld and forcefed at little bit at the beginning.

    If you want a good-old boy club, go to one of the several other fishing sites you mentioned. Or join a local club. You'll get plenty of that there. You can feel free to act in snobby, elitist, exclusionary ways and establish your own selective cliques. You can even drink beers and blame all the world's problems on "kids these days" and "video games" with other curdmudgeons of like mind.

    You talk of others with a sense of entitlement? Pot. Kettle. Black.
     
  16. I personally like the Good Ol' Boys on here. So don't go anywhere Andyman. the best advice I've got has came from seasoned vets.

    There's guys on here that have been fishing for longer than I've been living. Without their advice, I'd be lost and so would many others. I'm always open ears to anyone, even if I don't agree. Experience and Wisdom are hard to come by, and that's what the "Good Ol' Boys" bring to the table.
     
  17. Why? Why would MY thread be moved as it is a question about the fishing report section? But others remain....in fact 19 of them on the first page, that are no more "reports" than mine.
    Thread like :
    "I saw a guy at ____ with a sticker on his car."
    "Open letter to OGF"
    "Where can I go frog giggin'?"

    Are those any more along the lines of a fishing report than mine? Me thinks not.

    As far as creating controvery, am I creating controvery, or am I asking people to consider another way? And I can't really think of any "site rules" that I would be breaking by asking a cerebral qeustion....

    And to the learning aspect. I didn't grow up in a fishing family. We hunted.
    I learned how to fish on my own, trial and error. I read rticles, bought magazines, read websites, etc...and then started applying that information to my own waters. Someone saying, "Go to Griggs and toss tubes on the east side" would have done me little good. I lived for the stuff like "Find a pond. In the spring look for the non-lee side, and throw jig-n-pig, slow roll spinnebaits, etc...around submerged trees."
    THAT'S the kind of stuff that I could digest and apply to waters that were close to me.
    And of course I asked alot of questions about tactics, baits, whens, wha times, etc....I guess I just never felt enttlted enough to actually ask someone to send me infomation on their honey holes.
    And because of that, I indeed ended up receiving alot of offers to join people, wacth ,the, and learn. And I made alot of great fishing partners along the way.

    I guess it's just a different way of looking at things, I guess. Like I said, I knew there would be a few that just woulnd't get the actual point.
    Offering information, good. Asking for it and expecting it......another thing all together.
     
  18. In response to Commodore,
    If there is anyone on here who has EVER Pm'd me, emailed me, or called me and asked me a question that I did NOT answer, I'd be interested in hearing from you.
    The only exception would be some of the ones I received lately that asked, and not very politely, for specific spots.
    I share spots alot. NEVER on the public site, but very often through personal exchanges.

    If you think my original point here somehow suggests a "boys club" or some type of exclusivity, maybe I'm just stupid or maybe you are grossly missing my point.
    I'm referring to a BETTER way to help people. In no way am i suggesting that helping newer guys is a bad thing. Quite the opposite. the best thing for fishing and hunting right now is MORE fishermen and hunters. Period.
    But those guys are going to suck wind if all they know is one or two bodies of water, and a couple of hot spots.
    They wouldn't have LEARNED anything that way. They'd just be repeating an action of which they been shown. And by LEARN, I mean it's more valuable to know WHy you're catching fish here, and WHAT the fish are doing and how to adjust your approach based on what they are doing. If all you know is go here and throw this, at some point that's going to stop working and you haven't learned anough to be able to figure out what to do next.

    Does that make any sense at all?
     
  19. Wiper Swiper

    Wiper Swiper Banned

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    I think the term is an "instant gratification society", and no, it's not an attitude confined to just young people.

    Personally, I could care less about reports on community holes like spillways and public ponds. Trout releases, white bass runs, paylakes...who cares how many flock to fight it out shoulder to shoulder.

    I get a bit peeved when joe average stumbles across a spot or river section that I spent years learning, and then unaware of the fraility of the resource decides to blab about it to a world wide audience with no understanding of the consequences.

    Another HUGE factor that few here consider when defending the practice of tell all reporting is that most of the individuals who will hurt a resource without regret never post, never register, are never "seen" in the OGF community. They're called "guests" or more accurately "lurkers". I constantly hear about the "good folks" that love this site and would never do anything unethical.

    Well...until OGF requires everyone to register before viewing the fishing reports, those good folks are out numbered. It's time the administrators of this site took seriously the concerns of "veterans", and employed simple safeguards to protect, not exploit, their cash cow.
     
  20. THAT'S A GREAT POINT RIGHT THERE.
     
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