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piedmont

Discussion in 'Southeast Ohio Fishing Reports' started by bttmline, Sep 6, 2004.

  1. bttmline

    bttmline E.B.C.C. Founder

    hey guys
    hit my pond yesterday. it was real slow, two hammer handle and a channel. water was 78 degrees and not as clear as usual most likely due to all the rain this year. seem to have a little more weeds this year.
    well it should be coming on in the next few weeks as the nights cool and the days get shorter. this is my favorite time of the year, eye time, come on ice. i'll keep you all posted.
    bttmline
     
  2. I spent the last 4 days down there. Fished the 6 mile area alot for bass. Did great until the holiday came. I did try for some eyes at Reynolds Rd. Nothing. I also tried by the 4h and Essex. nothing. I troll alot of hotntots. Usually do good. Its too early yet. I heard some guy talking to another boat about him using shad raps and getting 7. I have been wanting to try shad raps, so I went over to see what size to use and what color. He told me that he just started using shad raps and he don't know much about them. What he told me next put me through the roof. He said that he has a cabin down there and just fishes for saugeye to eat. He said that he caught the 7 that morning. He said that they were just 12 and 13 inches. He said they'll eat. They stock them so it don't matter how small you keep them. I can't keep my mouth shut so I had to tell him about guys like him that keep too small of eyes. He just blew me off. Can you believe that guy? I am still trying to find out a little more about shad raps. What size, color and how deep they run. My hotntots run about 15 feet with 8 lb line at one mile per hour. That really works for my wife and I. Thanks.
     

  3. Don Whiteman

    Don Whiteman foreverfishing

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    We use the #5 black/with light belly and red chin shad rap. Have had more luck with it than anything else. Troll them a little faster than the hotntots. We've started picking up a few eyes at Piedmont, mainly early morning or evening.
     
  4. bttmline

    bttmline E.B.C.C. Founder

    hello again
    corey would be the one to tell you the ropes on shad raps. i will be using the soon on my lead-core rig, just started with lead last year but it is a learning phase that is coming. the main thing i think corey will say on raps is to keep contact with the bottom, that is where the saugeyes are more prone to be.
    as for the size, the ones i call hammerhandles and throw back are the ones that guy is eating, maybe the state will spread the 15'' size limit statewide, i hope, it would really slam the slaying of premature eyes. but this will be a real topic of fire between
    different anglers.
    well better go for now, hope to see you on my pond.
    bttmline
     
  5. I've seen many people take small eyes out of there. Probably the reason it is hard to find any big ones. I definately think they need to put a size limtit on them. My friend who fishes there alot says it is the Amish people who do it. He says they will keep anything including very small bass. It makes me sick.
     
  6. cheezemm2

    cheezemm2 Ohio State Alumni 05'

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    I've fished Piedmont for over 16 years, and I'm only 21 so I've seen it all too. Many people get their limit, then come back out and get another limit. There's the dink takers<----really aggravates me...The ppl who will not take the time to use pliers to get the small fish off and just rip them up...and yes I've seen "certain" taking dink after dink....

    Aside from this though, Piedmont is one of the most beautiful lakes and one of the quietest. I often drive back from Columbus to visit my family and fish the weekend there...Love that lake!
     
  7. rockbass

    rockbass Banned

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    I have to chime in on this. I too have seen the amish take every fish they catch home. I also frequently see 12 or more amish on a pontoon made for 8 people or so. They are allowed to get away with it, so they will keep doing it! I have seen them take too many fish that were way too small to be kept. I caught a crappie once at CLendening that was only like 10 inches. A Amish guy that was fishing there thought it was a big one. Then I saw him catch a few and they looked like small shad. No wonder a 10 incher looked big to him.

    back to the saugeye. I like to eat them too. I am not an expert on them, but if I catch one less than 18 inches or so I throw it back. I don't think the whole prob with sizes is only due to the guys keeping the little ones though. I think there are quite a few people who will keep a limit or more than there limit every time they go out. I think this hurts the pop just as much as a guy who keeps a few dinks here and there. That is just an opinion though. I don't keep any bass, yet it seems to me that the bass are just as scarce as are saugeye. Sizes and numbers. I think anyone who fishes for any of these fish will think there is a number or size shortage of any given species just because they are not catching any. I would like to think there are not many bass at Clendening because I rarely catch more than a couple per trip, but I know it is just my inability to find and catch these fish. :eek:


    Ok I was off on a tangent a bit. I think there are more fish and bigger fish than we know. It is just a matter of being at the right place and right time. And all those other variables out there!
     
  8. Corey

    Corey OGF Team-Charter Member

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    Piedmont has a tremendous population of Saugeyes. The physical attributes of the feeder creeks (nice gravel runs in areas accessible to fish moving upstream), make for the best chance of a successful spawn of any of the local MWCD lakes. While I also get angry at anglers who keep those little 'Eyes, the truth is that it's probably the best thing that could happen to Piedmont. It wouldn't even hurt to increase the creel limit for a season on that lake only. Another possibility would be to suspend stocking for a season or two and keep up the electroshocking and netting surveys to determine whether the population is self-sustaining; doubtful, but possible in Piedmont. An overabundance of small fish, that are not properly culled, can lead to a stunted population. There are still many trophy size 'Eyes in Bttmlines' pond but most anglers persist in trying to target them as they would Walleyes and just don't fish where the big fish are or use the wrong methods. Each season there are many 27 to 30 inch fish caught by Bass and Muskie anglers. Many Bass anglers are fishing the shallow waters that most 'Eye guys shy away from, and the Muskie trollers typically move at much faster boat speeds than traditional 'Eye presentations dictate. A Hot-n-Tot that is diving 15 feet will be a good choice IF you are trolling in waters that are 12 to 15 foot deep, and, IF the active fish are in those depths. A basic annual pattern for Piedmont Saugeyes would probably go like this: In Winter, whether with or without ice cover, the 'Eyes use the entire water column. They will move up into very shallow water, even under ice, if the food is there. The deeper waters, from 15 to 30 feet, are more temperature stable and neutral or inactive fish will seek out suitable bottom composition and structure in these depths when they are not actively feeding. The presence of food at these depths just means that they don't necessarily have to migrate vertically (shallower) in the water column to feed. They can stay home and raid the fridge. When water temps and length of daylight hours combine to trigger the spawn, fish will dissapear from the deeper basin areas and migrate to the extreme upper end of the lake. Many big 'Eyes will be up in creeks so narrow you can jump across them. Normally the first week of April is a ballpark date for this activity. After the spawn they outmigrate into the main lake and spread out everywhere, again using the entire water column till the lake waters warm up and begin to stratify. The thermocline at Piedmont forms deeper than at most other local lakes due to better water clarity allowing deeper light penetration, which in turn allows oxygen producing vegetation to grow at deeper depths. There are other factors, such as a limestone run from a bay in the upper end, which contributes to water clarity, etc., but these are the basics. Fish in the warm Summer season can lay out in the 18 to 22 foot depths when they are inactive, but will rarely feed there due to the absence of forage at those depths at that time of year. Neutral and more active fish will use the weeds for cover and protection and this is likely where the most Saugeyes are in Piedmont during the hot weather. When the fish are deep in the weeds they are very hard to target and catch. Anglers who have mastered the art of "Rip-jigging" can do very well at this time. (look it up, my fingers are getting tired, lol) Right now is a tough time. Every time we have these rains, with accompanying high waters and cooling shallows, it brings bigger fish up into the flooded areas and those anglers casting shallow crankbaits and jerkbaits in the upper end of the lake can take some really big fish. Recurring warmups and falling waters push them back into the weeds. Most fish caught inside weedlines and outside weedlines, in trollable water, tend to be dinks. They are avoiding areas where predators can ambush them. An unobstructed field of vision becomes their best protection in the clear water. When the water muddies up they will be anywhere there is food. After a short period of time during and immediately following turnover, during which their whole world is unstable, they will again begin to use the entire water column again and the bigger fish will follow the bigger forage into the more stable deeper water.
    Now for the Amish comments. Sorry to say, but there are many Amish, along with many Irish, African, Polish, Asian, German, etc., etc., that keep fish too small to even get a filet from. However, I feel obligated to those Amish with whom I fish occasionally to go on record as saying that not all Amish are this way. Some of the most dedicated catch-and-release anglers in some of the smaller Walleye clubs are Amish. FYI, there was an all Amish, catch-and-release Crappie Tournament held on ponds near Millersburg this past season. Hopefully these anglers can set an example for their friends and families that will increase the awareness for the need to conserve our valuable resources. Just as with anything else, a few can give the rest a bad name.
     
  9. Corey-

    Thanks for yet another great post, especially the last paragraph.
     
  10. rockbass

    rockbass Banned

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    I am not totally against the Amish. I just see mostly Amish overloading the boats and keeping small fish. I also see others, but the bigger groups are Amish. I know they are not all that way! I also know of some Amish who hunt deer all year round. Pretty sad. They get away with it as do other poachers. :mad:
     
  11. cheezemm2

    cheezemm2 Ohio State Alumni 05'

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    I too, understand the fact that not all Amish are this way...I've worked with many respectable Amish people...unfortunately though...the ones that will stick out in your mind are the ones taking all the fish they can and being illegal on the water...it's kind of sad because it creates a stereotype and it's scary because of the little ones that will be onboard w/o enough lifevests...
     
  12. sauguy

    sauguy river & muskie angler, dayhiker

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    i have read your posts on saugeyes on atwood and piedmont. do the same methods and patterns hold true on clendening. i pick them up here and there with no set pattern. i fish the dam area mostly and the water is mostly in the twenty plus foot range. should i fish the other end where there is shallower water at this time of year? will be on clendening the last two weeks of sept. any suggestions would be help full. thanks
     
  13. Hatchetman

    Hatchetman Senior Member

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    Excellent post Corey. It seem's to me that a whole lot of people that post here would swallow their tonsil's if they had any idea of the amount of VERY large saugeye that swim in Clendenning, Tappan, and Piedmont, not to mention the 10's of thousand's of smaller ones!!
    I for one don't like to see anyone try to impose their size limit's on any particular fish on someone else. I could care less if a person who bought a fishing license keep's 6 saugeye that are 10 in. long. That's the limit, 6, the stae does not have a size limit do to it being basically a put and take type fishery. I personally use a 15 to 22in. slot for myself and could care less what someone else does as long as it's not over 6 saugeye. No matter what you think of the Ohio Division of Wildlife, there job is to make us as happy as they can, not miserable. The're people know a little more about the fishery's than the vast majority of us do and to a man they will tell you keeping a limit, no matter the size does not hurt. Jim is right in questioning the amount of fish that Piedmont in particular will support. Each acre of water will support x pound's of fish, wether that weight is 10 big fish or 200 little ones.
    If you guy's see all these violation's, to many fish, not enough life vests, hunting deer year round, people cheating in tourny's, how many have made a phone call to correct the problem? If you know it's happening and do nothing, you are just as guilty as they are.
    That's it, I don't post often but Jim know's who I am and will vouch that I know a little bit about saugeye fishing.....
     
  14. Corey

    Corey OGF Team-Charter Member

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    I'd say you know a tad more than your share H-Man! Lol. When are we gonna get out on Piedmont together?
    Sauguy-Clendenning is a very good lake with some unique problems that I don't have the knowledge or information to understand. Declining water quality has been a problem there for nearly 10 years. Loss of aquatic vegetation which served as a filter could be both a cause and a symptom. Did the water quality decline due to loss of weeds, or did the weeds die due to poor water clarity. Which came first, the Chicken or the egg? Theories offered by local pundits range from State applied chemicals (not likely true), to agricultural runoff. The Army Corps of engineers says that the construction of the dam is the cause of the noxious, milky blue/white condition of the spillway creeks directly below the dams, both at Clendenning and at other local lakes, in varying degrees, but most especially at Clendenning. Apparently our local dams are constructed in such a way so that excess water is released from the lakes from a level below normal stratification levels, so that water that comes out is without Oxygen. When this water comes out, it reabsorbs Oxygen from the air and releases Nitrogen Sulfide (I think I'm right on the name of this chemical. I'm going by a faulty memory here guys. This was explained to me by the Army Corps of Engineers guy at Tappan). I was told that a project is in the works to modify the dams to draw water from 3 different levels at the same time. They say this will alleviate this problem. As far as loss of vegetation being the result of agricultural runoff, it doesn't quite make sense. Clendenning shorelines are mostly wooded, with very little ag land directly abutting the water. Tree roots act as filters and would trap ag related chemicals as they leeched downhill toward the lake. If the cause were ag related, the first damage, rather the first sign of loss of vegetation, should have come in the bays that are fed by streams that run through farmland. This isn't the way it happened. The lake lost ALL it's vegetation at once, over a season or two, with the loss being lakewide, not in any specific areas.
    There are some great Saugeyes in Clendenning. Nearly every September there are many trophy size 'Eyes caught there but nearly always by Bass anglers. Most Saugeye anglers will begin to take big fish from October to ice-up. Few of the 'Eye fishermen are targeting the right areas now. Right now, #5 and #7 Shadraps, in 1 to 4 feet of water, in the upper end of the lake or bays that have feeder creeks, is what I'd recommend. Bobby Cox, one of the more successful local Bass anglers, takes 7, 8, & 9 pound Saugeyes every year at this time in the back of Brushy Fork. A few years ago Tonto and I used that info to win an SOWC event there. While everyone else in the tourney was in the main lake doing " 'Eye things", we were casting Shadraps in the upper lake shallows. While we didn't limit out (we weighed in only 4 fish), our two biggest were a 7.6 and a 5.1, along with a couple 15 -17 inchers. Bob Thorne (some of you met him at the Tappan outing), a Clendenning regular, uses this info on a yearly basis and does well in September. There are fish down near the dam but few will be caught out in the deeper water. The stretch back towards and beyond the Tip Ramp can be good. Try working the depths from 6 or 8 feet deep up to the banks.
     
  15. rockbass

    rockbass Banned

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    There jim is again with a wealth of knowledge.




    As far as the too many people per boat and not making a call, I don't have a cell phone handy and if I did, how would it help when the marina is allowing these people to get on these boats and go out?

    As far as the deer hunting, I have not seen it. I know a guy that lives very close to them and has property next to them. He sees them and hears the guns. He said they have called and nothing has been done. He said they tell him they can't catch them so they can't prove it. If I were there, I would call!
     
  16. cheezemm2

    cheezemm2 Ohio State Alumni 05'

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    It's near impossible to get a cell phone to work anywhere except out of edgewater for me on the lake...I'd call regardless of the person when there's not enough life jackets or the boat is over capacity...a wrong turn and a very real problem!
     
  17. sauguy

    sauguy river & muskie angler, dayhiker

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    thanks for the ideas on clendening. will try some shallow areas and see what gives.
     
  18. rockbass

    rockbass Banned

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    If I decide to try CLendening this weekend, I think I will also try some shallower areas. Hopefully I can get under the bridge on 799! :eek: I know it was impossible to with a boat last Friday night. Maybe it is down enough now! Now I just need some of those shad raps and some Vibe's. Then I will have a start on the saugeye's!


    I need to learn more about fishing for these fish!
     
  19. I say make the call to the gamewarden in Belmont Co. Give him as much info as you can. If he can klonk them he will. If he makes a couple arrests, word travels fast, it will slow down some of this crap.
     
  20. uglykat23

    uglykat23 duuuuhhhuuuuuhhhhh

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    yes amish do keep most of every thing they cath but very little is wasted im not trying to defend them but if i had a family the size of most amish i would keep every thing i catch to as long as it was in legal limits,i grew up with a very nice amish family next door where i lived there was not many people living there at that time so i learned alot about the amish religion. some of the beliefs i do not agree with for instance not having to wear orange during the hunting season the orange is there to keep you safe not as a fashion statment .and yes i have seen the barns full of deer hanging i dont think its right butthe game warden or sherrif has to catch them and until they do there is basicly nothng we can do about it we can tal until we are blue in the face about i seen this or i seen that but by law there is nothing we can do until they catch them in the act thank you for listening to my blubbering...lol lots of luck ths coming deer season im itching to get out there with my new bow and shoot a doe since i dont have the luck of seeing a buck when i have my bow with me