nymphing rig?

Discussion in 'Fish on the Fly' started by ryosapien, Dec 19, 2008.

  1. ryosapien

    ryosapien Bad@

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    alright i thought i had this under control but my confidence is dwindling faster than the water temperature.
    Here is my rig:
    straight 8' peice of 15 lb flouro -->~3 B split shot to a barrel swivel
    ~18" 3x flouro double surgeon's knot to another ~15'" peice of 3x tippet.
    tie a fly to the tag end of the first tippet and a fly to the end .
    I set my indicator at the junction of the line/leader.

    Here is my beef:
    1. i like to fish fast water (throats tailouts walking runs) i feel that my indicator is raging ahead with the faster top current and i am not penetrating the bottom. this is especially evident in tailouts where the indicator must go into the riffle before the offering reaches the tailout.

    2. I feel like i am dragging the flies behind the indicator. Should i be looking for a more swing type aproach where the flies are doing a crescent type )motion rather than a straight line l perpendicular to the rod tip?

    3. How in the heck do you achieve a "right angle" indicator drift. I feel like i would have to put a brick on my line to get it directly under the indicator. DO i need to stagger the shot like the float fisherman do. Is this only applicable to slow pools?
    4. If i buy you a bunch of beers will you teach me all you know about steelheading? jk (no but really i will)


    IS it the rig? is it the technique? should i ditch the indicator for all but "right angle" drifting.
     
  2. You do realize that on a long cast, casting across current,you may have to mend the line several times...right?? You didnt mention "mending" but the trick to achiving a Drag Free drift, is line control. I guide plenty of folks and all "think" they are good at mending, but I can tell you, after me beating on them all day about it, they start catching fish and they always say they never realized how much work nymphing is in fast water to do it correctly and actualy catch some fish. All my buddies consider me the local Nymphing guru. Its all relative but I suggest watching some folks who are good at it and then practice, practice, practice. Only time on the water, will you then actualy have the "feel" of how hard to mend the just right amount of line every time. Best tip is to cast, take a long strip immediately( same motion) and then mend on the tight line vs most folks who try to do it on a slack line, the slack line mend will only mend the line halfway to the fly leaving you in worse shape then not mending at all. Moral of the story is to learn to do it right and your numbers will go up drastically, even steelies prefer a drag free drift most of the time unless fresh and very active/aggressive on the riffles, and then the swing need to be precise to illicit strikes. Typically not something for beginners, they tend to snag a lot of fish.

    Good luck, if your ever around the Mad River, Ill give you a free lesson!
    Salmonid
     

  3. ryosapien

    ryosapien Bad@

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    I do mend but usually on the slack type line you mentioned I will try tightening it up. I usually fish quite close to myself actually and cast then mend 1-2x then bring the rod high and get tight to the indicator. I plan to get down there for some resident trout fishing this spring i believe i will take you up on that deal salmonid. Does my rigging sound pretty right though?
     
  4. Fishaholic69

    Fishaholic69 Fly Fishing Addict

    I always mended right after my cast basically. thanks for the tip! I got a indicator that supposedly tells me I got a drag free drift but I don't know if it works right or not.
     
  5. The rig sounds like it will work assuming you can get it to roll over at the end of the cast, if not, remove split shot and decrease size of indicator until you can. Once you cast, mend until all the fly line is above the indicator, not just part of it. The tight line mend will allow you to do it right the first time and save you lots of wasted time. A properly mended cast will allow you to hardly need any thing more then a bead head fly to get down 4 feet on a drift, if done right.;)
    Its easier to show then to explain, if that makes sense
    Salmonid
     
  6. Oh yeah, another good mending tip, is that the act of mending has 2 sperate parts, lifting the rod up, then, over, not just 1 fluid motion, its 2 motions, up to lift the fly live to the surface and remove some of the vacuum from the fly line, then keeping the rod at 45 % a quick almost casting motion, over always mending upstream ( after all, you are casting the fly line while mending)
    I hope this helps.

    Salmonid
     

  7. FA which indicator did ya pick up??? the only way i have has this happen with any promiss is with the classic corkie and toothpic method... Was having some similar issues this week on the Rock awhile attempting to drift rig with the fly... and realized i had to keep mending over and over again... i am going back to the corkie and tooth pick as an indicator..unless there is a better version.. i may even paint (only the middle) these toothpics with a floresent pink so i can see them better... of course this was after 3 hours of doing who knows what..LOL

    Great topic and thread fellas...

    Frank
     
  8. Fishaholic69

    Fishaholic69 Fly Fishing Addict

    I have pop top indicators in large.. basically before you tie your fly on put your line through the lil rubber piece. then tie on the fly. then adjust to the depth you want and slide toothpart of indicator into the rubber and you are good to go! only thing is if you put alot of bb size splits on your line your indi will sink too lol.. I usually use 2 or 1 bb size shot or smaller shot. then agian I only used these 2 times for steelies last year and got skunked cause I was a noob. .I mostly streamer fish when I can so nymphing for steel is something I am not experienced in.. but in the winter you need to nymph I hear so I am trying to learn if the river would give me a day! heres a link to those indicators. http://www.riverbum.com/Umpqua-Pop-Top-Indicators/ heres how it looks on the line http://www.americanflyfishing.com/r...ail.asp?pf_id=FACCS_Sierr_109591&store_id=201
     
  9. Yeah, it's all about the mend in order to get the "right angle" from your indicator to your shot.

    That, and one other thing that might work is to change the distance from your indicator to your shot. From what you described, it sounds like you're keeping your indicator at a constant location (at the junction of the line/leader).

    You should be setting your indicator to shot at the same depth of the area you're fishing. So, if it's a 2 foot deep rifle, you should have your indicator 2 ft. above your shot. If you're indicator is set too deep, you could also have too much line below it and it can be dragging (why your idicator is racing ahead of your flies). Between that and not mending correctly- that is probably part of your problem.

    One more thing I'll add is to always set the hook. Your indicator will wobble and bounce as your shot tinks off the stream bed, but if mine hesitates and turns a little I aways set the hook- I don't only wait for it to go under. Sometimes it's nothing, but sometimes it's a fish.
     
  10. I have to disagree with Erieflyguy about the distance from the indicator to the fly. I was taught that you place float 1½ to 2X depth of water that you are fishing. The faster the water, the longer the distance. This compensates for the bow in your line and allows the nymph to tick bottom. As for shot, the first should be placed 4-6” above hook and add more, at 4-6" intervals, as you need above the first one.
    I was fishing the Chagrin upstream from the old fly shop and standing in a swift current about 3' deep. I had 6' between the float and the fly with a 9' leader. I started with 2 BB-size shot and it took 6 shot for me to hit bottom. By the way, I hooked a very nice Steelie that fought me for about 10 minutes with some great aerials before wrapping me around a rock and cutting the line.
    As for getting your float upstream from your fly try the Reach Cast. This is a normal cast, but just as your line is unfurling, you throw the rod upstream. Take alook at this video - it is a very easy cast to learn.
    http://www.expertvillage.com/video/18080_fishing-reach.htm
     
  11. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree rweis, on a few things.

    The reason you set the indicator to shot at the depth of the area is so that strikes are detected as quick as possible. When you have more distance, a fish can have your fly in it's mouth and spit it out before your line even becomes taunt. When you set it at the depth you're fishing the line from your indicator to your line is taunt, the shot tinks off the bottom and then your flies float just a few inches off the bottom, where the fish are. I use to just leave my indicator about 2x the depth and once I starting adjusting it to the depth I starting getting a lot more hookups.

    That, and I genenarlly only need to use two BB-sized shot to get me down in some seriously fast water. I might add a beadhead fly with some lead wrap to help get it down but that's about it. The closest I'll ever put my shot to my fly is about 8" and that's in heavily stained water. In gin clear, I usually have it set about 16"-18" up from the flies.

    It's all really about constantly adjusting your setup.

    ryo, if you haven't already heard of it. Pick up "Steelhead Guide' by John Nagy. It's by far the best book written on Great Lakes steelheading. Nagy is a guide out of PA and knows the Ohio streams as good as anybody. He has a whole chapter on "right-angle" indicator fishing that has some great diagrams etc... that book covers everything and has great maps and stream run-off rates...just basically a lot of good info in one source. The maps and stream info covers Michigan, Ohio, PA, New York, and even the Grand River in Ontario.
     
  12. Here's a link to a very rough sketch I was able to find online for you.

    http://www.michigantroutstreams.com/michigantroutstreams/images/INDICATOR-FLY-RIG.jpg

    btw- try "thingamabobbers" (that's really the product's name) indicators. You can find them at Chagrin River Outfitters in downtown Chagrin Falls, or online at Cabelas. They're great little indies I just came across. By far the best product to come on to the great lakes fly scene all year.;)
     
  13. ryosapien

    ryosapien Bad@

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    Thanks guys. I do use thingamabobbers and are by far the best indicators i have come across. They tick along with the stream bottom i love it. Only thing is you cant tell if your flies are directly under your float with them. I have supinski's book steelhead dreams and have paged through nagy's at the fly shop. If i have any money after christmas i will probably pick it up. Any thoughts on using running lines when would one want an intermediate sinking one as opposed to a floating?
     
  14. I've actually heard Supinski speak at a club meeting once. He's fished all over the world...pretty interesting stuff. IMO his book is more for Michigan and the slightly different tatics they use up there though, if you ask me. Nagy's is really specific for Ohio. I bet you can probably find a copy cheap on Amazon.com or half.com. Might be worth the $ but that said there's no substitute for time on the water like salmonid said.

    I used to keep a spare spool with running line on it in my pack and would change it out if I wanted to bottom-bounce. I'm sure a lot of guys still do. I don't anymore because I can bottom-bounce with my floating line if I just lengthen the leader a bit if I want to. It's hard to feel strikes bottom-bouncing though, so if I'm just looking to catch fish I stick with the indicator.
     
  15. I may be an old dog (and I am), but I can learn new tricks, so EFG, I'll give your method a try. I see the advantages with feeling the fish, but does mending keep the fly directly beneath the float? Have you tried the REACH cast?

    Glad to hear everyone likes Thingamabobbers, I just bought some, but haven't tried them yet.
     
  16. Yeah, there's more than one way to skin a cat so I guess it's whatever works for you.

    No, never tried a reach cast. What do you mean by that exactly? If it helps catch fish I'll give it a shot.

    btw- you'll like the thingamabobbers.
     
  17. cool. thanks rweis, I'll give it a shot.
     
  18. Using split shot on that rig will be a real challenge to execute a reach cast. Best bet is to wade into a position where you can more easily do a "Hinge" cast which comes natuarally when using plit shot and side arm casting. This i swhere if you are right handed, you side arm cast upstream while facing the far bank at about 30 degrees, when you let go of the cast,shoot it to the end of the line, let it recoil back downstream and give you the exact effect of the Reach cast. Much easier since the normal casting motion will do this on its own. Perhaps a demonstration would work better.....

    Bottom line, If want to do the reach cast, remove all the split shot and use the lightest rig you can get away with, otherwise, try my way.

    Salmonid
     
  19. I fish the same indy rig as you...One thing I don't think you mentioned was leader size...I fish as thin a diameter flouro as I can; helps get the fly down quicker with less lead...

    Dan