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I also remember Ashtabula Got like 12'000 or something back in the possibly late 90's or something for some reason??? I droped out of the club around 95 and fish no-where-near as much for steelhead as i used to....I liked it better before it was cool, I know you know what i mean....thank-god i discovered Muskies since then, even though two entirely different seasons....anymore, a few trips to the Grand, Bula, and Conne a season is all i need.
 
I also remember Ashtabula Got like 12'000 or something back in the possibly late 90's or something for some reason??? I droped out of the club around 95 and fish no-where-near as much for steelhead as i used to....I liked it better before it was cool, I know you know what i mean....thank-god i discovered Muskies since then, even though two entirely different seasons....anymore, a few trips to the Grand, Bula, and Conne a season is all i need.
Yes sir,I know what you mean.When you could fish every day for a week and not see another person.Now every access point you go to there are already 10 cars parked.
 
2-3% of steelhead eggs hatch. Thats it. Alot of people dont keep hens because they think you got to release them so they spawn.... thats not the case...and a whole nother topic that we wont get into(catch and release)
Ohio gets alot of pa steelhead who lost there way and end up in our eastern streams..... Pa steels have a more of a wider back while ohio stocked steels are more slender and skinny.... The first photo is a pa fish,,, the second is a ohio fish. See the differance????????? both are females cought at the same time of year!!!!



 
2-3% of steelhead eggs hatch. Thats it. Alot of people dont keep hens because they think you got to release them so they spawn.... thats not the case...and a whole nother topic that we wont get into(catch and release)
Ohio gets alot of pa steelhead who lost there way and end up in our eastern streams..... Pa steels have a more of a wider back while ohio stocked steels are more slender and skinny.... The first photo is a pa fish,,, the second is a ohio fish. See the differance????????? both are females cought at the same time of year!!!!



So how does this pertain to this thread?We have already gone over strays.If that top fish was caught in PA. it is one out of 10,000.Because anyone who knows anything most of there fish are the cookie cutter 24" that arnt nowhere near the girth of that.And as I said I believe the few naturals are left overs from the London strain.Which would make PA.and the"few" naturals look similar as they are/were just mutt domestic rainbows.
 
So how do you tell the difference between a PA strain and a natural now?
 
So how do you tell the difference between a PA strain and a natural now?
Look for the spots.Almost all hatchery fish will hardly have any spots below the Lateral line.The wild will have spots everywhere,like the pic I posted.They look alot like the pics of the fish people post of rainbows from cold creek.Or better yet 'bows from New Zealand.
 
Those are good memories at arcola in the 80's. We where out there with ya and sounds like about the same age. Had to walk through the old fence but then D'arcy went and publicized it. Shortly after that there was a restroom, parking, and oh yea.. crowds.
We'd drive out that way and hit any shoreline we could find. Had to work for them back then though. 2 fish days were banner.
I'm with ya on the east rocks.
anyway.. good times and memories.

Just to throw this into the mix. From what I've heard there is going to be a seize on the manistees (from michigan) stocking program until they get a handle on the VHS disease. There is a ban on transportation of fish amoung great lakes. There are even new regulations regarding frozen cut bait.
 
dude, i was just showing photos of the 2 types so people could see, and that fish was caught in arcola creek. so im very sorry, i have no ideal how to fish for steelies and have no ideal what im doing.
 
Bob, that day wasn't bad. If I remember correctly, we landed about 10 fish that day. A lot of guys would kill for those numbers. I can't wait until the season starts again. Bring on the cold temps!
 
Those are good memories at arcola in the 80's. We where out there with ya and sounds like about the same age. Had to walk through the old fence but then D'arcy went and publicized it. Shortly after that there was a restroom, parking, and oh yea.. crowds.
We'd drive out that way and hit any shoreline we could find. Had to work for them back then though. 2 fish days were banner.
I'm with ya on the east rocks.
anyway.. good times and memories.
That's a good reason why the state DNR won't publish anything about natural reproduction. A few posts and/or reviews about these unstocked waters can hurt those trout that hatch there.

It probably happens in a number of places, but the 2nd summer is what does these fish in. Spawned fish that make it thru a wet, cool summer might have a chance, but they won't sustain the fishery. A lot has to go right for a trout to make it back to the lake, including a lack of silt during the spawn, temperatures, preditors, and fisherman. I've caught some smaller than stocked trout in a few tribs that aren't those suspected of reproduction out east or west. One year, I ran into a few schools of small trout in some deep runs in the upper rocky. Have caught a few larger trout in the same areas that didn't look like the typical steelhead. The spots (or lack of) can't be used exclusively, since fish from other stockings besides the state can make it to the lake and back. This includes the kamloops strain adults stocked in the east branch of the rocky and others stocked in hinkley or wallace, which do make it downstream and beyond.

Just to throw this into the mix. From what I've heard there is going to be a seize on the manistees (from michigan) stocking program until they get a handle on the VHS disease. There is a ban on transportation of fish amoung great lakes. There are even new regulations regarding frozen cut bait.
Let's hope that they get a pass, since the fish are being transferred between two state agencies. The ban is probably more towards the fish farms transporting fish that are harder to police. If not, the state is probably working on the possibility of hatching their own fish in Castaila. Even if they cut the production in half, there will be more than enough fish to go around.
 
Just guessing, but the bigger girl looks like a London strain, not a Manistee. I too have caught a trout or 2 in the past 22 years. I wade mostly the Chagrin, Grand and Rocky, in that order....

Great to be thinking steel now regardless!!!
 
That's a good reason why the state DNR won't publish anything about natural reproduction. A few posts and/or reviews about these unstocked waters can hurt those trout that hatch there.

It probably happens in a number of places, but the 2nd summer is what does these fish in. Spawned fish that make it thru a wet, cool summer might have a chance, but they won't sustain the fishery. A lot has to go right for a trout to make it back to the lake, including a lack of silt during the spawn, temperatures, preditors, and fisherman. I've caught some smaller than stocked trout in a few tribs that aren't those suspected of reproduction out east or west. One year, I ran into a few schools of small trout in some deep runs in the upper rocky. Have caught a few larger trout in the same areas that didn't look like the typical steelhead. The spots (or lack of) can't be used exclusively, since fish from other stockings besides the state can make it to the lake and back. This includes the kamloops strain adults stocked in the east branch of the rocky and others stocked in hinkley or wallace, which do make it downstream and beyond.



Let's hope that they get a pass, since the fish are being transferred between two state agencies. The ban is probably more towards the fish farms transporting fish that are harder to police. If not, the state is probably working on the possibility of hatching their own fish in Castaila. Even if they cut the production in half, there will be more than enough fish to go around.
As of right now, Michigan will still be able to supply Ohio with Steelhead with there surplus. However Michigan will not be excepting the Channel Cats we traded for the Steelhead. So the program is indeed SAFE, this was reported in the Ohio Outdoor News lastweek.
 
"So how do you tell the difference between a PA strain and a natural now?"

The Pa. fish is missing half its teeth........

The only difference you can detect is if the fish is a "london" strain
or "manistee" - body shape is a dead give away (usually).

With strays and all who really knows?

Didja know that the first steelies were actually stocked in the Cuyahoga in
1920 ?
 
If the supposed wild fish are london strain hatchery fish a few years removed, why would they have spots that the current london strain hatchery fish don't. Wouldn't those fish still be basically genetically identical. Not saying there is no natural reproduction, because nature will always do what it's meant to do, but the spots thing doesn't seem to make logical sense.
 
If the supposed wild fish are london strain hatchery fish a few years removed, why would they have spots that the current london strain hatchery fish don't. Wouldn't those fish still be basically genetically identical. Not saying there is no natural reproduction, because nature will always do what it's meant to do, but the spots thing doesn't seem to make logical sense.
there are no more Londons since about 1995.They were a domestic rainbow,so there off spring would look more like stream trout.
Now People are going to say that PA. fish are rainbows also.But not really,they are a mutt.Starting out as domestic then crossed with chambers creek strain and then I think Ganarska(sp) strain.ILL have to go check my records and get back with that.
 
I actually enjoyed the Londons, aside from goofy spawning in Oct. in Conneaut, Seems like they were either 21-23 " or they jumped right up to 10 #. They were deffinately easier to catch than the Manistee, no where near the zip on em. But fun all the same.
 
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