Look out gun owners

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Bigun, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. Clif notes: Guy borrows neighbors gun (AR15) and goes to range to shoot it. Gun hiccups and goes full auto for 3 rounds, ATF seizes gun and attempts to prosecute owner. ATF states that any gun which is capable of firing more then 1 round per pull of the trigger is a machine gun and subject to FUll auto ban. Including double guns which are capable of firing both barrels with a single trigger pull.

    http://redstradingpost.blogspot.com/2008/01/len-savage-duck-hunters-and-sportsman.html

    Ive gotta research this more but right now Ive gotta get to work
     
  2. K gonefishin

    K gonefishin Bit by Musky bug

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    The guy had to have added a sear (sp?) to that gun and it must have been a pre-ban, if it was a pre-ban you can rig them with a pop can to shoot full auto. There are instructions online on how to modify.
     

  3. Possibly was a preban gun but per the article the ATF test lab had to try different ammo in it and still was only able to reproduce the condition "with a self admitted 50% error rate" I think it was probably a sticking firing pin etc.
     
  4. yep, unless the gun has been modified somehow it is incapable of firing more than one round at a time. Sounds cool though, for those who enjoy firepower it would be a pleasant surprise for that to happen , except for the legal trouble that is.
     
  5. Not true I have several friends who hae had normally semi guns go full auto by malfunction. One a S&W sigma (Junk gun) that eptied its entire mag due to some unknown failure during annual firearms training. Replaced by S&W for free

    The other a remigton 1100 or 1187 I can't remeber which that had the firing pin broken and lodged in the bolt. They loaded three rounds into it closed the bolt and it proceded to fire all three rounds that were in the chamber. This one was taken in on a trade by a gun shop who apparently missed the stuck firing pin during their check before firing it.

    A little further about this story http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=507483&page=1 The thread from ar15.com that includes postings by the guy who was charged. Supposedly the gun was modified. Still reading the thread so that I can get more info.

    Edit: Finally got a chance to do some reasarch into this. the first page of the AR15 thread shows the affidavit and criminal complaint. It seems this gun was modified, and the original owner was not being careful who he loaned i out to. leting it be loaned out for months at a time etc. Will continue researching.
     
  6. K gonefishin

    K gonefishin Bit by Musky bug

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    If you know how to hold certain guns, mostly smaller tech or uzi type pieces if you cradle it right in your hand you can get them to slam fire just about as fast as full auto, a buddy of mine can do it with a couple 9mm uzi's that he has pretty cool I tried and couldn't to it but he's like wyat erp

    I've shot full auto guns before and man they are a blast, a mini-14 ...3 round burst is just as cool and your ammo lasts longer :p. Very fun to shoot.
     
  7. The One

    The One Ret. 1SG U.S. Army

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    Fun to shoot but very impractical unless laying surpressive fire during a firefight.
     
  8. K gonefishin

    K gonefishin Bit by Musky bug

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    For sure very impractical, they are for fun only, but alot of fun!! expensive to buy and load as well.
     
  9. jeffmo

    jeffmo officially unofficial!!!!

    i had a daewoo k1a1 that was a semi-auto.it was ALOT of fun to shoot but on occasion,after getting warmed up it would rattle off the entire mag on full auto.
    i do wish i still had it,they're going for about $1600-$1800 now!
     

    Attached Files:

  10. If you have a first Gen FN P90 you can fire it fully automatic without shaving or altering the gun. All you have to do it move a spring. Full auto with 5.7 ammo is a little on the expensive side. From what i understand the FN FS2000 will also do the same thing, due to having the same trigger and parts in the rear off weapon.
     
  11. This sounds like a Bump Fire. A very common thing when shooting any simiauto with recoil. Most common when the rifle,shotgun or pistol is not being held firm against the shoulder or hand, I think Bump Firing was haggled over in a few court cases a few years ago . For anyone who shoots an M1A it is not a case of am I going to have a bump fire but when am I going to. M1A's are one of the easiest, especially when shooting from a bench rest. Do a google and you can see a guy Bump an M1 Garand etc. Its fun but sure wastes a lot of ammo and serves no useful purpose.
     
  12. This gun wasn't bump fired. The definition I have always heard of bump firing is that the gun fecoils away from your trigger hand and when it is pushed back forward by your shoulder the trigger is depressed by your trigger finger which hasn't moved. Per the ATF's definition of a machine gun this dosen't qualify as the trigger is pressed individually for each round fired.
     
  13. littleking

    littleking Crossing Lines LIKE A PRO

  14. After reading all 34 pages on ar15.com which has alot of the original court documents and statements made by the individual in question I am uncertain as to this verdict. Some issues:
    #1 the ATF refused to disclose certain documents as they stated they contained tax information, Even though the documents could possibly have been "Black lined" to remove the tax information
    #2 The ATF refused to allow the gun in question to be tested and inspected by an independant third party.
    #3 Because of the ATFs refusal to allow a third party inspection It cannot be determined if the gun was altered to allow unreliable full auto fire, or if the gun was worn to the point that it was occasionally doubling or trippling. which apparently olympic AR-15s have been known to do.
    #4 Someone had put M-16 parts into this gun, While not making the gun full auto in and of themselves the owner claimed to have never put them in.
    #5 don't loan out guns to neighbors you barely know for long periods of time. The owner lent his gun to this neighbor kid for approxiamtely 5 months. At any point during this time the kid borrowed the gun he could have done anything to alter it without the owners knowledge.

    Search for U.S. v. Olofson there is tons of info available.
     
  15. The One

    The One Ret. 1SG U.S. Army

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    I agree it's fun to shoot. But having an automatic or even a weapon that fires three round bursts really serves no purpose other than killing people. That's why the military and police are usually the only ones who legally possess them. Now having assualt type weapons for plinking and target shooting is another story.
     
  16. SwollenGoat

    SwollenGoat Scourge of Hoover

    LOL, just saw this thread and thought "Hey, I've shot one of those!"

    The pics even show me wearing my OGF hat!
    (Doesn't make me any prettier though.) :D
     
  17. littleking

    littleking Crossing Lines LIKE A PRO

    no comment