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Discussion in 'Sports Talk' started by Net, Oct 24, 2007.
Would you want him on your favorite MLB team?
Yes, but I would prefer to have him as my DH primarily although that would still not stop me from trading for him. In my opinion the guy is without a doubt one of the top 5 hitters in the game and arguably the best RBI and clutch hitter. You can't pass that opportunity up. Yes he can be lazy at times but there is so much good to be gained.
as a reds fan i would take beckett over manny:
I just simply merged the two threads.
I absolutely hate they way he plays the game, but I think he's not only one of the top 5 hitters...he may be the BEST hitter in the game. That being said, I still don't think I'd take him, due to the fact that I don't like the negatives he brings to a team. He's lucky they were in the midst of the ALCS or he would have been beaned at least once for standing on home plate watching his last home run for 5 seconds. If I was Byrd I think I would have hit him with the new ball as he was rounding the bases!
You know if he was in Cleveland they wouldn't let him do that stuff there.
Is this seriously a question? He would have an impact on any team. I would take him back in Cleveland in a heartbeat.
Who wouldn't take arguably the best pitcher in baseball over Manny. Beckett is unbelievable and only getting better. I would argue that he is just reaching his prime and has the potential to be a hall of famer. He is going to be the man for years to come. Who currently can compare to his stats and post season success. Fact is if the game is a must win and the stakes are high, who else would you want over him?
AS A REDS FAN MYSELF I WOULD TAKE MY NEPHEW OVER SOME OF THE REDS PLAYERS
The thing to consider if you want Beckett over Manny is that with Beckett you get a player for 1 out of 5 games and if fortunate you get 8-9 innings whereas with Manny yet get someone who can make an impact every game. I am not discounting the quality of Beckett as a pitcher because I think right now he is the best pitcher out there. But pitchers are only part time players. I think I would still go with Manny if that choice were presented to me between the two.
By the way, I think Manny is pretty much a hall of famer on what he has accomplished already in his career. You are talking about a lifetime .313 hitter that is averaging 35 HR's and about 115 RBI's a year for a 14 year career thus far. Those are HOF numbers right there. He is only like 10 short of the 500 HR mark as well which always seems to be a gage for worthiness in the HOF. By the time he is done he will be a first ballot entry.
bkr hit it on the head. Do you want somebody who can produce for you every game or somebody who can produce every 5th day????? Manny is a no-brainer HOF first ballot. He could retire today and he is in the hall. Best hitter I have ever seen in my 25 years. 500 homers doesnt guarantee a spot in the HOF just ask MArk McGwire. Unfortunately the steroid problem makes a problem with the 500 mark. Who cheated who did this and that blah blah blah blah. Give me Manny any day of the week over Beckett!
Why take a guy like Manny over Beckett. Yeah Beckett is a pitcher and not an everyday player but the biggest thing is he puts his team in contention to win everytime he steps on the field. Manny could be pitched around. Not to mention its shut down time when it comes postseason and Beckett on the hill. What about him being a 20 game winner, how does that affect league standing at the end of the year compared to another pitcher winning 12 games? An eight game swing is more than enough to get a lot of teams into the playoffs year after year. A baseball team has to have one thing more than anything in order to be a true contender, PITCHING!! Name the last slugging team to win it all at the plate, then consider the pitching staff's of the past championship teams. Think about these teams; Yanks, Red Sox, Tigers, White Sox, Cardinals, Braves years back, the 90's Reds with the Nasty boys, they all had GREAT pitching staffs. I say give me a team with decent hitters and great pitchers, and they beat great hitting and decent pitching the majority of the time. And Not to mention how the character of the player will rub off on the rest of the team, and Beckett is just a leader and guy you just want on your team. Manny might not give 100% all the time.
I don't totally disagree with your philosophy as I do believe that Beckett would be awesome to have on a pitching staff.
But do you honestly not think that Manny in a lineup is not worth at least 8 wins? Pitching around a guy will undoubtedly backfire on teams at times and even the times that you do not see a guy like Manny with the game for them with a hit there are many opportunities that were given to other guys in the lineup to drive him and others in because of a walk of Manny. Do you think it was a coincidence that Lowell was able to drive in 120 runs?
Yeah, Manny is tough and don't get me wrong I am a Boston fan and like Manny, but in order for him to do as good as he does in Boston you have to take a look at a lot of other variables. For example, Who hits around him? You have to have a solid lineup in order for Manny to succeed, otherwise he is not going to be pitched to nearly as much. Yes he will also put up numbers but he is also getting towards the later days of his career and Beckett is just now entering his own. Give me Beckett any day. Beckett just brings so much more to a team than Manny with his presence on the field and around the clubhouse. He is going to be a Hall of Fame pitcher IMO. He will get a couple of more cy youngs and a couple more rings if Boston is able to put a good group around him.
I can see Manny getting another 5+ years in his career. I am not saying Beckett will not do that but for a pitcher to stay at the top of the talent pool for that long into his career is not a guarantee either. He is already 27 which is not "young" by any means.
I agree that putting hitters around Manny will only help his production but name a player that would not hit better in those situations? I don't agree that Manny is getting towards his later days of his career in terms of production. I think he has continues to improve his hitting all along and is every bit as good now as he has ever been. I can see him continuing like he has been for a while barring any serious injury which is a risk for any player.
In case you can't tell I still would take Manny.
We were discussing Lowell the other day and how effective he has been. I heard an interesting rumor mentioned the other night that it is at least a possibility that the Tribe may look at him. I guess if it meant not getting other guys signed that they wanted I would have reservations but otherwise I would like the idea. I like Blake but in my opinion Lowell is far better than Blake both at the plate and on defense. As far as age they are basically the same so the longevity of contracts should be comparable.
that "single" off the wall in cleveland was UNEXCEPABLE! that was an easy double and he JUST got to first before someone got to the ball. Every time he hits a hommer his hands are in the air even being behind 6 runs. If he didnt have the hommers, the man shouldnt even be in the minors. there are MUCH more deserving players out there than this joke for a player!
Yeah, I don't like that nonchalant aspect of his game either but there are many players that some with some baggage. Fortunately though his baggage seems to be just what you see on the field.
By the way, you can take away his homers and he is still a lifetime .313 hitter and an RBI machine. The homers are just an added plus.
That can be a big "+" after the five. His type of hitter can play about as long as they want. I see him as a Edgar Martinez (Rico Carty for the older guys) type of hitter, hitting over .300 well into his 40s. He can play left field for a long time if he stays in Boston, with that small area of room to play.