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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Been waiting for the last month for the appraisal to come back to move ahead on the refi. What a shocker that was......... Bought place 4 years ago for 193k, a steal on that market 4 years ago. That appraisal was 234K.
Move ahead 4 years, after having almost 90K done in inprovements, today my heart fell through my stomach, out my ass and into the basement. Just found out it appraised for 185K and now I dont have enough equity to make the refi enless I want to pay a much higher rate ( Hmm, Im starting to see a picture now...) Also looks like I just threw out about 500 bucks if it doesnt go through, seems Loan officer is gonna do some digging and see what she can come up with. I have the barn and garage insured for 100K right there, ( not including 12 acres, 2500 sq ft house,) I just dont see how these numbers are figured, and yes, I do know how they are figured but was told there were no comparable sales in my area so a lot of "guesswork" was done to get those numbers. Very frustrating to say the least....

Anyone else going through this right now???

Salmonid
 

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I feel your pain. I'm in the same general boat. My house has to be worth less than 20k than I bought it, the neighborhood is in steady decline, meanwhile my neighbors don't work and live for free and they get so hot in the winter they have their windows open to let out some of the heat we the taxpayers bought meanwhile I'm next door freezing trying to keep the utility bills down.

Somewhere along the line America lost its way. The working class is going to have to pay for everyone's mistakes, and well that is what we are doing.

Our children will bear more of this burden.

Just keep dreaming of fishing screw the rest.
 

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Salmonid, I bet your property taxes did not drop 1 cent did they! It's freaking rediculous the way our country in heading to hell in a hand basket on a bullet train out of control!
 

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I managed to refi back in February. got 4.625% for 30yr.

Salmonid, your loan broker did not do you justice. He should have had some idea of what you needed to qualify for BEFORE he sent out the appraiser and cost you $500. That way, you may have avoided the entire process.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Fishinjim, yeah, we had a number in mind that we needed from the appraisal but I certainly dd not figure the house would drop sooooooo much in value. When i got a little upset with her and asked about seeing the appraisal, that is when she got all pissy and said she would make some calls and make sure they covered everything of value, ( Right SQ Footage, Correct # bath/Bdrms, I live on 2 parcels so wanted to make sure they counted the acerage next to me, make sure they added something for the nice pond I just built, horse arenas, etc)
The appraiser was at my house about 5 minutes total and most of that was fiddling with his camera to take a pic of 1 bath, kitchen and front of house, he literally didnt go upstairs, or look at back of house or anything like that, asked me zero questions so I was trying to let him know I had a pond, had added all new flooring, walls and ceilings, and so on and so on. Did I mention he looked not a day over 16 years old.......At first I thought he was just the go get the pictures boy.. but apparently not.
FWIW, i just did a house search online and found some older, smaller houses with less property in my neighborhood for 229 and 207K so I know his numbers were way low. I did find a comparable property in a much better school district for 339K but it did look a little nicer.

I am just waiting to see what the loan officer says.....stay tuned.

Salmonid
 

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Fishinjim is right, you shouldn’t owe anything if you don’t qualify. I just refinanced my house with an equity loan, and it didn’t require an actual appraisal. They just do an aerial appraisal (online I assume). Is it the appraisal that cost the $500? My total cost for the whole refi process I think was $400, which of course was rolled in. Something doesn’t sound normal.
The fact is, home prices have been extremely inflated for a long time, due to things best not discussed here. ;) They’re finally getting back to normal, though I’m sure they’ll bounce back up in time.
 

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I think the appraisal cost is a portion of your $500, at least it better only be a portion.(since $500 is way high) I think mine was $150 on our refi done this spring.

I would demand to see the detail of the appraisal and challenge what does not look correct. The appraiser does not deserve to get off easy if he is indeed that far off on his numbers. Most likely the suffering market has depleted some of the value on your place but if you put $90K in to improvements I would make sure that they are rolled in to his appraisal. He may have done a lazy approach and took much of the info from the one done 4 years ago. If it was even only worth the $193K you paid 4 years ago and you added $90K to it that give you $283K (I am being conservative and not using the $234K appraisal that you had at purchase time). That seems a bit too much to have lost over 30% of the value over that time, especially considering that it probably appreciated a bit before it began its decline.

If the appraiser wins out on this then I believe I would be lobbying the county auditor for a reassessment of the property value for tax purposes. I don't know exactly how that works but it would not be right that you may be paying taxes based on a property value that is inflated by more than 30%.

I hope this all works out for you. I recall that you have been after a refi for some time. It would suck to have it end that way.
 

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my dad just had his Union ,ohio home appraised a couple months ago. the person who appraised tried to tell my dad that his family room that he added on was a screened-in patio. my dad took it to court and won.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok, i just looked and the App fee was 299 ( Union Savings) so that much would be lost if the equity isnt there to do it. ( The recording/pest inspections etc will not be done if this doesnt go through) I am in limbo for a few days until she gets back with me, but yeah, been watching rates and such for several months and missed the day it got down to 4.5 so had to settle for 4.65 / 15 yr. Old rate was 6.15/30 yr so it will be a certain upgrade to get this through, just frustrating, I hate dealing with folks who have a little bit of power and your stuck having to take it, sort of like having an idiot for a boss, ( been there , done that ha ha)
Once she gets back with me, Ill be demanding to see the appraisal asap!

Thanks for the support guys
Salmonid
 

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We were having our house re-financed at a 4.75 % rate but the idiots at the company we were (suggested) to use screwed around so long we lost that rate. He came back with. "I'm sorry I forgot to complete some paper work, but I can get you 5.5%." I told him to stuff his paper work and his company both. I filed a complaint with the BBB and the State finance board on them. We filed a legal charge on him for the appraisal fee he charged ( $250.00) he said he'd send that to us since we paid for it. My lawyer told him he needs to include a check also. We'll see how that turns out.
We checked with our bank and they told us to hold off for now and they would get us a better rate. Our credit rating is well over 800 so getting a better rate won't be a problem they told us.
Look hard if your going to refinance. There are good company's that will help you and those that will screw you.
 

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In this market one needs to be very careful about what "improvements" are made to a property. Just because a person puts X amount of money into a property does not mean that the property is worth X amount more.
Home values fell an average of about 20% - 30% depending on the area. It appears you bought when the prices were at their highest. Now your appraisal is being done at the markets lowest point in many, many years.
I hope you can make things work out the way you want.
 

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Salmonid, if you were qualifying for the FHA low rate (as I did) then they are required to send someone to the physical site for the appraisal. It sounds like they really lowballed the appraisal. The appraiser and the loan agent should be a 2-way communication process and the appraiser should have known the bottomline number you need to appraise for in order to meet the loan qualification numbers.

I'm not saying it should be rigged, but to completely undercut the appraisal was a total waste of time for everyone involved and if your agent had any idea it would have appraised that low, should have told you up front. Your agent needs to find a more qualified appraiser or you need a different loan agent.

I'd be more than happy to provide you with my agent. He works for a firm in Columbus and I have used him a couple of times. Very honest and diligent. PM me if you are interested.

Jim
 

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The appraiser and the loan agent should be a 2-way communication process and the appraiser should have known the bottomline number you need to appraise for in order to meet the loan qualification numbers.
Those used to be called prostitute appraisers. You'll be hard pressed to find any of those any more. It's highly illegal, and is partially responsible for the real estate crisis we are in now. You might find a different appraiser to see a few thousand $ more value in the home, but I doubt the difference will be night and day. The value is the value in today's market, not what you paid for it years ago with appreciation, or what it might be worth when we get out of this slump.

You'll get a complete copy of the appraisal. You paid for it, it's your property. Both the appraiser and the loan agent know this. And as BlueMax said, just because you put a $10,000 gold faucet in the bathroom doesn't mean you just added 10K to the value of your home.

I hope everything works out in your favor, but times are tough at the moment. The banks and lenders are watching every penny, just like we are.
 

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And as BlueMax said, just because you put a $10,000 gold faucet in the bathroom doesn't mean you just added 10K to the value of your home.
this is something that many people don't realize.there are lots of "improvements that can be made that actually do not pay for themselves.in fact most do not add to the value what they cost.
the pond,for instance,may add some,but probably not what you have invested.same with flooring and other things.outbuildings are another loser in most cases.
i'm in no way arguing the value of your place,and am sure the market has negatively impacted you,bur just shining a little light on some reasons that putting lots of money into a place doesn't always appreciably enhance the value.
i tried to buy a place 20 years ago,and backed out because the appraisal was bs.
older farmhouse on 5 acres with a few outbuildings/barns.the place needed work,but that's why i wanted it.the price was right and the house had character and great potential.selling price was 40K.bank had it appraised at 40K(exactly).that was strange.but after deducting my 20% down,they wanted several thousand more.their excuse was the total appraised price(40K)was for everything,but they were only financing the house,which they said was only worth less than 30K:confused:
needless to say,i scrapped that plan.
worse than that was the new construction loan they tried to write me for 40K for a new build.they wanted my 10K lot plus over 20K cash on a appraised 85K home:confused:

did i mention i hate bankers more than i do politicians?
 

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Hetfeldin, the way Salmonid described the appraisal, it sounds like they did not do a thorough job on the appraisal, especially when Salmonid found local comps higher than his property.

The appraisal I recieved on my house was realistic and competitive with local sales. It also matched closely with zillow.com.

Granted, just because you improved your property doesn't mean your house is valued more. You do have to "improve" the more valuable areas - ex: kitchen, bathroom. Even then, you will get a % of the value, never the full 100%.

If Salmonid is dissatisfied with his agent and appraisal, and he thinks he should have appraised for more, then by all means, he should investigate with a different agent.
Depending on his current interest rate, generally if he improves by 1 point or more, it is usually beneficial to refinance.

To apply for the best rate, the government buydown FHA rate requires excellent credit and at worst a 80/20 price to value ratio (ie 20% or more equity as compared to the appraised value) to qualify.

His agent should have been able to tell him up front so nobody's time/money was wasted.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yeah, I am aware that the "improvements" were not all the type sof things that add value but I was making a point that the house has been completely overhauled and actually looks like a nice place to live in compared to when I bought it, Lots of improvements were non noticable things like replacing 12 acres of fence, completely rewiring the barn, basement, adding battey backup 2nd sump pump, 15K in escavating/grading to fix all sorts of drainage problems, etc. I do understand that but at the same time, the property is completely been overhauled and there is no question, if the right horse person wanted this place, $280-$300 K would not be out of the question. We took a dumpy older farmhouse with falling down barn and 10 ft tall weeds and made it into a nice equestrian mini farm. I am sure a lot of sweat equity is also making me mad that they say the values went down but still was tottaly shocked to hear that number. Like I said, give me a few days to see what happens and what they counter with and Ill post an update then.

BTW, not sure what you mean by the FHA buydown rate??? Our credit is 800+ and this is my 3rd house so I thought FHA was not an option??? Please advise.....

Salmonid
 

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I feel your pain. I bought my house and since in the past 3 years it has dropped dramaticaly .

Brought on by Section 8 housing and a Homeless Shelter just recently built. Neighbor had their s appraised and dropped 40K so I am expecting even with my improvements in Kitchen and flooring through the whole house. It is going to go down.

I am going to take a loss just to get rid of it. Before it goes down even more. I just happen to be lucky enough that the neighbors mother wants to sit down with me and discuss pricing. She wants it. It would be really nice to sell it without a realitor.

Southwestern City Schools Im affraid is going to raise the taxes again. The house is just not worth it to me. It was my mistake for even buying a house in the City. I was young and dumb then.

I am going to sell it buy some land and build a cabin. Out where I was born and raised the country.
 

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His agent should have been able to tell him up front so nobody's time/money was wasted.
His agent had no idea that anyone's time/money might be wasted until she got the appraisal and found there was no equity in the home (according to this appraiser).

I've had more than my share of experiences with appraisers. They spend little time at the actual house. They check to see what the exterior material is (aluminum siding, vinyl siding, cedar siding, ect), check to see the roof material, see what kind of windows are in the place (newer vinyl windows, or old, aluminum single pane windows, ect), see if the driveway is gravel or concrete, and get a quick overview of the property. All they need to see inside is if there is drywall, carpeted or wood floors, and if the inside is in fair, good, or excellent condition. They might check to see if the plumbing and electrical service has been upgraded, or they might just ask you if they have been. The brunt of their footwork is checking the local tax appraisals, and getting the legal description of the home (square footage, legal bedrooms, legal baths, half baths, attics, and basements), and comparing it to like houses within a mile with comparable size, rooms, ect, that have sold within the last year.

The loan officer wants your business, period. She wants her commission. If you brought her ten more appraisals, she'll use the best one, but it'll cost you $300 a pop. If you think it will be worth it in the long run, get another one and see how it compares to the first.
 

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The reason that I mentioned that Salmonid needs to see the appraisal and review it closely is because as was mentioned many times the appraiser simply does a quick surface view of the home and then relies on the county auditor's site to provide the rest. I found a couple of errors on my property listing on the auditor's site in the past and had to work these out with the auditor's office for tax purposes. If they have any errors or ommissions in this way then an auditor who is relying on that data could be misinformed.
 

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>BTW, not sure what you mean by the FHA buydown rate??? Our credit is 800+ and this is my 3rd house so I thought FHA was not an option??? Please advise.....

The rate I got (4.625) was only available because the US Government payed the money to buy down the rate from the banks. This was part of the solution to help the housing market in this country. The originator of my loan was Huntington Bank. My loan was transferred to Bank of America via FannieMae. In order for me to qualify for the special rate I needed excellent credit and at least 20% equity loan to value ratio.
The Government program may have ended already and you may be refinancing with a standard bank at the standard rate - in that case, your requirements are different.

The FHA loan program has completely changed. My original home mortgage was back in 1992 on a Condo in California. It was a FHA loan with requirements. By the time we got to 2000, the requirements were so lenient that the banks were basically giving loans to people who had no credit and who had no income for buying a house. That's the mess we are in now with foreclosures. The program that started early this year was to help clean up those bad loans by allowing homeowners to obtain a new loan at a lower interest rate.

Jim
 
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