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Wanting Walleye
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since this was brought up in a different thread and shut down rather quick,I believe it is still important and would like to hear more from you guys.

Myself,I am pro 2A.I believe everyone that chooses to own a gun has that right when they become 17 years of age,and not only males.

I believe gun laws don't work.There are already too many guns in this country,not a bad thing mind you,and you will never get these guns from the hardcore patriots no matter how many laws are passed against them.We already have too many laws on the books concerning gun ownership and none of them will stop what is happening in this country until we enact one more,which would make the other 22,000 or so obsolite.

I believe we need a law to make it mandatory to educate our children as soon as they are old enough to enter school about guns and gun safety.This needs to be as much a part of their learning as history,math,spelling,english,etc.It needs to be a required class every year K thru 12. K thru 8 would be taught only about safety and all the different types of guns manufactured since their inception to the most modern produced today. 9 thru 12 would continue with safety as far as safe handling,transporting,cleaning ,storing ammo,and actual live fire range time.

After graduating high school,let THEM determine for themselves whether or not they want to own a gun,not the government.

If this one gun law had been in place 220 years ago,the killings at VT this week would not have ever happened.The students and faculty at this college would have never chosen to make this place a gun free zone because they could not concentrate on higher learning because there are guns present in the classrooms.They would have been comfortable around them.

You will never stop someone with the intent of killing themself,but you can stop them from killing you and others through education and gun ownership.

Edit:

Please stay with the topic at hand and remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
 

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I am a life time outdoorsman, gun owner, and veteran of the VN war era,my family has always been pro gun, I would support gun ownership to the last bullet with any of you. But what happened this week was due to one thing and one thing only. Semi auto weapons and high capacity clips. As long as these are available to common citizens, there will be an endless string of these sensless killings by regular folks who bought them legaly, then went off the deep end for one reason or another.We are not allowed to own full automatic weapons for an obvious reason, these "people killers" should be in the same catagory. None of us needs automatic weapons to harvest game, or defend our families. When lunatics go balistic with these high capacity semi autos, nobody stands a chance to fight back with improvised weapons, or HtoH combat. If only bolt action ngle shot weapons were allowed,, there would never ( NEVER) be another incident like the VT massacre. Sure lunitics will kill a few, but any group could overpower a gunman if he/she had to reload or work a bolt. There comes a point when you have to adjust to the world we live in, this "crap" will keep tight on getting worse until we all call a duck a duck, and compromise a little.
 

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MOD SQUAD
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which thread are you referring to?:confused:
i don't rember one being shut down.the only reason one would be,is if it got taken off track and/or used as a platform for general political ranting.
that said,i too am a proponent of 2A and the right to carry,having owned guns all my life.
but i'm not sure i agree with your total approach,but do support the idea of firearm(and more) education in schools.but at certain levels and on a voluntary basis,because i doubt forcing it on everyone will ever work or even be the right way to go.there are schools in texas and maybe elsewhere,that do similar have elective courses that have gained popularity and acceptance,even by originally skeptical parents.besides firearm education,they have included fishing,archery and other outdor skills,etc. as well.
 

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Senior Executive Member
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its funny, some might consider me very liberal, but I am absolutely not for banning of guns. I am pro 2A.

if people want to see an end to the kind of behavior that drives people to go on senseless rampages, they should stop looking for easy ways out (which IMO would be along the lines of blaming video games). We need to start addressing the personal alienation people experience, the class divisions that are emerging, the intolerance, the health, the disposable culture, and the disregard for human life.
 

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Defensor Fortis
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Hardtop, did you really mean to say that? If you are pro gun then you would understand that high capacity clips and semi auto's had nothing to do with that. It's the person. Then should we take cars off the road. Case in point, a few months ago a man drove his car into a crowd and killed many innocent people. Maybe if he had a bike that wouldn't have happened:confused: Maybe we should get rid of bigger spoons because I can eat more food and get fatter than what my rear end is already. Please tell me you don't really think like that.
 

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Defensor Fortis
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That guy wasn't even a citizen of the US. He should have never even been allowed to purchase a firearm!!!
 

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Wanting Walleye
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
which thread are you referring to?:confused:
i don't rember one being shut down.the only reason one would be,is if it got taken off track and/or used as a platform for general political ranting.
that said,i too am a proponent of 2A and the right to carry,having owned guns all my life.
but i'm not sure i agree with your total approach,but do support the idea of firearm(and more) education in schools.but at certain levels and on a voluntary basis,because i doubt forcing it on everyone will ever work or even be the right way to go.there are schools in texas and maybe elsewhere,that do similar have elective courses that have gained popularity and acceptance,even by originally skeptical parents.besides firearm education,they have included fishing,archery and other outdor skills,etc. as well.
Prayers for VT.The thread wasn't shut down,this topic was.

And why not force it on people to take responsibility for it.My 8 year old grandaughter has been taught by her mother to be deathly afraid of the sight of a gun.I'm working with her on that fear since I CCW,she's getting better.
 

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Nugent: Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster

POSTED: 11:25 a.m. EDT, April 20, 2007
By Ted Nugent
Special to CNN

Editor's note: Rock guitarist Ted Nugent has sold more than 30 million albums. He's also a gun rights activist and serves on the board of directors of the National Rifle Association. His program, "Ted Nugent Spirit of the Wild," can be seen on the Outdoor Channel.

Read an opposing take on gun control from journalist Tom Plate: Let's lay down our right to bear arms

WACO, Texas (CNN) -- Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.

Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.

Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.

A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt .45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl.

At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun.

More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.

My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics.

She has since led the charge for concealed weapon upgrade in Texas, where we can now stop evil. Yet, there are still the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insisting on continuing the gun-free zone insanity by which innocents are forced into unarmed helplessness. Shame on them. Shame on America. Shame on the anti-gunners all.

No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a "cult of agriculture fertilizer" following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted "steak knife control" as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.

Evil is as evil does, and laws disarming guaranteed victims make evil people very, very happy. Shame on us.

Already spineless gun control advocates are squawking like chickens with their tiny-brained heads chopped off, making political hay over this most recent, devastating Virginia Tech massacre, when in fact it is their own forced gun-free zone policy that enabled the unchallenged methodical murder of 32 people.

Thirty-two people dead on a U.S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in illegal possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun law. Feel better yet? Didn't think so.

Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?

I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.

Pray for the families of victims everywhere, America. Study the methodology of evil. It has a profile, a system, a preferred environment where victims cannot fight back. Embrace the facts, demand upgrade and be certain that your children's school has a better plan than Virginia Tech or Columbine. Eliminate the insanity of gun-free zones, which will never, ever be gun-free zones. They will only be good guy gun-free zones, and that is a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial. I, for one, refuse to genuflect there.

What is your take on this commentary? E-mail us

The opinions expressed in this commentary are those of the writer. This is part of an occasional series of commentaries on CNN.com that offers a broad range of perspectives, thoughts and points of view.
 

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From watching the news on tv for the last few days its clear that those who push gun control are gonna jump on the recent shooting spree and ride it hard. What they dont address is the literal millions if not billions of guns already out there in the population, a lot of them in the hands of those who would misuse them. Nothing can be done about this, and there are more that can easily be smuggled into this country to take their place. Placing restrictions on the rest of us and making it harder for us to "legally" buy a gun ( they can be bought cheap all day long illegally),...just means the bad guys have them and always will have them, and we dont.
 

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Bud n Burgers
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A good article in Worldnet Daily today that can put to rest the "Too many guns notion" is about Kinnesaw Georgia. They passed a law 25 years ago that requires ALL heads of households to "Own and maintain a firearm." They are a community of over 28,000 and in these past 25 years there has not been a single resident involved in a fatal shooting as a victim, attacker, or defender.They, of course, have had 0 murders and their crime rate is way below not only the national average but that of any community similar to theirs in size or makeup. In a free society like ours there is no way to prevent random attacks like what occured at VT we can only PRAY that they don't happen and respond with all of our best when they do. There are several much more guarded societies in this world that can'not stop these types of events even when they expect and are prepared for them, like Isreal. I truly believe conceled carry laws make us all safer.
 

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With a passion Toxic, You certainly understand why full automatics are out lawed don't you....? If it was legal to own machine guns and hand grenades, the next mass murderer would use them and the death toll would be hundreds instead of tens... I would never favor taking hunting weapons from my fellow citizens,if thats all anyone was allowed to own, the score would be even. The first offense for even possession of a semi auto, would be life in prison, that would encourage people to get rid of them. And don't bring up the concept of the bad guys still having them and killing all of us. If one person at VT had my single barrel 20 ga. that spree would have ended with extreme predjudice. If we are going to allow 30 shot clips in semi autos, we might just as well drop all the regs and distribute uzi's.... to every household and institution, is that the world you want to live in........?
 

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Loving Life
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to every household and institution, is that the world you want to live in........?
In short Yes...

If the playing field had been even in this event, or other events in the past, the cost of life would have been much lower.

I personally believe the founding fathers created the Second Amendment in order for citizens to protect themselves from the Government, not each other. However in the modern era, it's hard to imagine people being able to own nukes, tanks, F-22's etc, but still if a private citizen has the proper understanding and training of such equipment, they ought to be allowed to own them. The Second Amendment is there for honest citizens to defend their self, families, and country. The Second Amendment doesn't protect criminals.

I personally believe that if instructors and even students at Universities were allowed to carry firarms we wouldn't see this kind of behavior at all. Although it's all hypothetical, since the ones doing the killing clearly have suicide on their mind, so it might not matter. You could call it a way to create damage control.
 

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You certainly understand why full automatics are out lawed don't you....? If it was legal to own machine guns and hand grenades, the next mass murderer would use them and the death toll would be hundreds instead of tens
I'm not going to get too far into this, but you do realize that it IS legal in some areas to own and shoot fully automatic weapons? There are ranges dedicated solely to full auto and cannon type weapons. Last I heard, these aren't the folks out shooting people. Irresponsible drivers kill more people than irresponsible gun owners. Should we outlaw cars, or should we deal with the real problem?
 

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what happened this week was due to one thing and one thing only. Semi auto weapons and high capacity clips.
You've got to be freakin kidding me. What happened last week was due to one seriously messed up human being.

Do you remember word problems from junior high school? Let's try a couple:

-Johnny buys 200 rounds of 9mm ammo. If Johnny was going to buy some 15 round high cap mag for his handgun, how many high cap mag would Johhny have to buy? (The answer would be 14, and yes one mag would only have a 4rounds).

Next question:

-Johnny buys 200 rounds of 9mm ammo. If Johnny was going to buy some standard 10 round mag (becasue 15 round high cap mag are outlawed) for his handgun, how many high cap mag would Johhny have to buy? (The answer is 20)

Now, not only have we just had a couple fun math word problems, we've also learned that Johnny could still have unloaded all 200 rounds of ammo. He would have just had a couple extra mags. ;)
 

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Crossing Lines LIKE A PRO
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But what happened this week was due to one thing and one thing only. Semi auto weapons and high capacity clips.
i was waiting for this...

what happened this week was due to one thing and one thing only, a mentally unstable person committed mass murder with a legally purchased weapon.

semi autos, full autos, hand grenades, tanks, high capacity clips.. none of those kill people. people kill people.

people who's intentions are to kill people are going to kill people, regardless of the regulation, weapon or legal ramifications.

from my friend:

What did you expect? Haven't you been paying attention? We're all just victims now and nothing is directly "our" fault. It is easier to blame the gun than the person. This guy was just a regular dude with fantasies of violence both written and on video, a history of stalking ex-girlfriends and in 2005 was declared mentally ill by a Virginia special justice, who declared he was "an imminent danger" to himself and others.

It is always the gun's fault. The gun is an evil killing machine created by man. Yup, It's the gun's fault that those people died. I mean, you can't blame the person who pulled the trigger...can you?
 

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If only bolt action ngle shot weapons were allowed,, there would never ( NEVER) be another incident like the VT massacre. Sure lunitics will kill a few, but any group could overpower a gunman if he/she had to reload or work a bolt.
If memory serves me correct, I remember a handfull of guys that basically killed about 3,000 people a few years ago becasue they were using carpet knives as weapons.

If you forgot about the rest of the story, they used these big flying fuel tanks, (most of us call them airplanes) as missles and devesated and changed the world we live in forever. Maybe we should outlaw airplanes, right? I mean, if they didn't carry all that fuel, the World Trade Center buildings would still be standing, and many many many of those poor souls that lost their lives during the attacks of 911 would still be alive today, right?
 

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Gun control only keeps the honest man honest. Banning semi's or high clips only affects those people who follow the law.

By definition, criminals don't follow the law, therefore the ban would only affect people like myself who use a semi auto shotgun to hunt birds.

Remember, there was a law in place banning guns on campus. That didn't seem to work too well did it. Criminals don't care what the law says. All it did was stop people with legal CCW permits from having them when they needed them most.
 

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Crossing Lines LIKE A PRO
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If memory serves me correct, I remember a handfull of guys that basically killed about 3,000 people a few years ago becasue they were using carpet knives as weapons.

If you forgot about the rest of the story, they used these big flying fuel tanks, (most of us call them airplanes) as missles and devesated and changed the world we live in forever. Maybe we should outlaw airplanes, right? I mean, if they didn't carry all that fuel, the World Trade Center buildings would still be standing, and many many many of those poor souls that lost their lives during the attacks of 911 would still be alive today, right?
perfect reply.
 

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Cats are where it's at!
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The root cause was a defective human. He was smart enough to plan months ahead and planned his crime. He intentionally went into a gun free zone. He prepared weopons and tactics. He chose students who had no experience dealing with violent behavior. His whole intent was to become infamous.

Take away the guns.

The same person plans to take out as many people as possible by rigging himself with home made explosives. Tell people in Oklahoma City this isn't possible. Maybe deisel fuel and fertilizer should also be outlawed.

My point is that irrational people must be identified and dealt with before they become destructive. This will probably never happen.

So if we cannot predict when an individual might decide to commit murders what can we do?

We can start by teaching our children that life is not fair. You must accept responsibility for your own safety and security. Death is a certainty but you may have a split second to react to danger and save yourself.There was no one else to help 32 people. Only one professor acted with any practical purpose as he held the door closed. One student jumped out a window. All the rest waited for death like sheep.

The students were taught to obey the law. They depended on the government, or the police, or someone else to keep them safe. None were armed. None attempted to fight back. None of them had survival skills or instinct adequate to save any of them.

There is no way to prepare for such an event but I emphasize that each individual must think about what they would do to survive. The Law of Survival supercedes the Laws of the Land.
 
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