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Barge issues Help Me Understand this

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by duckman, Sep 5, 2007.

  1. duckman

    duckman Dr Data

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    So a year and half ago they lost a barge in transit and a barge has been implicated in the drowning of 3 guys this past weekend.

    So my questions are:

    1. I know they are large but is it really that difficult to see whats going on In front of and behind you towing a barge?

    2. If it is difficult to see why isn't there some sort of observer or radar to assist them?

    http://www.newsnet5.com/news/5329224/detail.html
     
  2. creekcrawler

    creekcrawler Konfused Kayaker

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    Gotta remember other factors may come into play here.

    If the barge hit those guys, did they have anchor lights on?
    Some people don't want to get up in the morning with a dead battery,
    so they figure at 11 miles out, they'll leave off their lights.

    I'll wait to see what comes of it. I do find it odd that the barge had debris
    between the tug and the tow though...

    Girlfriend says she remembers this happening once before a few years back.
    As she says, "Tonnage Rules!". (Don't push your right away with the big boys,
    you'll lose....):(
     

  3. KaGee

    KaGee Monkeywrench Staff Member

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    The smaller vessel always has the obligation to give way when in an intersecting course.

    The exception would be that boneheaded owner of the 60' vessel that tried to swamp everybody. He is not allowed to run through anchored or drifting vessels like that. He has the obligation to navigate around them or slow down so he doesn't throw a wake like that.

    ALWAYS use your anchor lights. If you're afraid of your battery dying, what are you doing out on Erie over night and only one battery?

    This appears to be another tragedy that did not have to happen. We may never know what happened or who is to blame. :(
     
  4. Hook N Book

    Hook N Book The Original Hot Rod Staff Member

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    I'm not sure what this means. Can you elaborate a bit...? :confused:
     
  5. duckman

    duckman Dr Data

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    I guess what I was trying to understand is how they operate if they can travel several hours and not know they are missing a barge or have large debris such as a boat hull along side of the barge...????????????

    I understand that they wouldn't feel the impact because of the size but why can't they see the big stuff even?

    What I was taught was that a boat at anchor or at drift has right of way regardless of size or propulsion (ie sailboat) of the vessel who is under power... not that I am going to play chicken with a freighter though to prove my point
     
  6. KaGee

    KaGee Monkeywrench Staff Member

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    The small pleasure boat has the responsibility to steer clear of any on coming vessel such as a barge, ferry, freighter, etc.. The smaller vessel is more maneuverable.
     
  7. misfit

    misfit MOD SQUAD

    here are answers to some of your erie barge questions.taken from the safe boaters course.of course the same applys to any large ships there.
     
  8. Hook N Book

    Hook N Book The Original Hot Rod Staff Member

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    Okay, that's what I thought you were implying (ocean/sea going vessels), Your original reply suggested that when two vessels of similar size where on an intersecting course, the smaller vessel sould have to give way.
    Thanks for the reply...! ;)
     
  9. KaGee

    KaGee Monkeywrench Staff Member

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    No problem. ;)

    Thanks Rick for that C&P.
     
  10. freyedknot

    freyedknot useless poster

    a month ago 2 freighters came into cleveland .1 from the N.W. ans the other from the N.E. both went right thru the pack of trollers by the crib and to the east of it. with abssolutely no thaught of the small boats.and i think they only found small debris on the barge life vests and some other small part . not a hull.
     
  11. KaGee

    KaGee Monkeywrench Staff Member

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    We don't have the amount of freighter/barge problems over here in the extreme western basin due to the water depths. A lot of fishing is done throughout the early walleye season in and near the shipping channel into the Maumee River. The channel is clearly marked. Anyone fishing that area is obligated to move and allow the ships clear entrance, they cannot vary from the channel or else they will ground.

    As for pleasure boaters, there is a lot of traffic between Put-n-Bay and Maumee Bay/Luna Pier area which sometimes interferes with fishing. My experience is that fisherman themselves tend to be more of a nuisance in their trolling or overall boat handling antics.

    There's talk of licensing all boaters. I have a survey I received from Boat US I'm about to answer regarding that. I have mixed feelings about the issue, but there are too many on the water that do not have a clue what they are doing. Not sure the license thing would change that.
     
  12. misfit

    misfit MOD SQUAD

    it seems too many people on erie don't understand the rules as they apply to cargo vessels:confused:
    they do have the right of way when traveling their lanes/channels.that's why those(channels)are marked,as kagee mentioned.in open water,everyone may not know where the lanes are,but a ship several hundred feet long is a hard thing to miss.not so for those big ships.night time especially, is not a good time to fish or anchor in the lanes.how anyone can expect a ship like that to see and/or avoid a small boat that wanders into their path is beyond me:rolleyes:
    i had a scarey experience myself many years ago when night trolling several miles out in the straights of juan de fuca out of washington state.we suddenly noticed the sky get darker from sillouette of a big freightor bearing down on us:eek:
    somehow we managed to escape with the help of that huge 15hp motor:D
    the wake ride was a real rush too,LOL.we had no idea we were in the shipping lane:confused:
    that was pre-gps days,which brings up a question.are there gps maps that show regular shipping channels?if so,i think i'd have one if i fished erie much,especially open water at night.
     
  13. Hook N Book

    Hook N Book The Original Hot Rod Staff Member

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    Rick, If I'm not mistaken...my Garmin 176 with the Erie map loaded shows the Toledo shipping channel. But it and my Raymarine does not shoW any open water shipping lanes. I think it shows the Toledo channel because of the depths and it's proxmity to other structures.