Anything and everything about Knives & Sharp Stuff...derailing permitted.

30872 Views 490 Replies 42 Participants Last post by Lazy 8, 10 d ago

Lazy 8

Discussion Starter · Jan 23, 2021

I had some stuff I wanted to post about knives on the Kitchen Knives post but if you know me...I'm not a Derailer! (yea, right)
So I decided to start a new post about knives or tomahawks or axes or any sharp piece of steel.
I'll start this off with a knife I found back in around 1973. It was laying in the middle of the road just past some RR tracks. Prolly bounced off a tailgate or bumper.
It was severely "bellied out" by someone using and sharpening that sweet spot. The stacked leather handle was extremely loose. The sheath was dry rotted.
It's a PAL brand knife and it has a RH stamped just about PAL. RH stands for Remington hunting. Very good high carbon steel. Diesel, would you guess maybe a spring steel?
I sent it to a maker back in the early 2000's who drilled out the pommel, cleaned up the tang and reglued every piece of leather. He then regrind the edge to what you see.
One thing I forgot to mention is this knife is from the WWII era.

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$diesel$

· #441 · 3 mo ago

Your right about that, fishn. This administration is financially kicking my arse.
Another route you might take is MDF board. It works kinda like paper wheels, but lasts MUCH longer.

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Gottagofishn

· #442 · 3 mo ago

I have a bunch of strops, including pine and basswood. I find I get a more consistent and sharper edge using some sort of powered strop like a 1 x 30 leather belt. I tested results over and over and I just don’t do as well on a board. I’ve tried a bunch of different honing mediums.
For me it’s easier and faster to use the Rikon.
But, I’m trying to take my BESS scores to under 100 consistently. I think I need the low speed buffer with paper or rock hard felt, or both to accomplish that. Just for fun…

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$diesel$

· #443 · 3 mo ago

A few years back, i bought a piece of MDF, 3/4".
I cut an 8" circle and mounted it on one of my grinders.
It does a real good quicky job and lays a pretty good edge.

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Gottagofishn

· #444 · 3 mo ago

$diesel$ said:
A few years back, i bought a piece of MDF, 3/4".
I cut an 8" circle and mounted it on one of my grinders.
It does a real good quicky job and lays a pretty good edge.

Ahhh.. just watched a video on that. Was wondering how well that would work? Do you put rouge on it?

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Gottagofishn

· #445 · 3 mo ago (Edited)

Here’s something I ran across talking about edge stability in butcher and kitchen knives as a function of angle edge and initial sharpness. http://knifegrinders.com.au/SET/SET_research.pdf
I was told (and had read) there are generalizations about knife angles and their use. Some sites will quote angles for outdoor knifes, kitchen knives and on and on. In the excerpt from Australian Knife Grinders site they test a group of knives and demonstrate that the sharpest edge angle a kitchen or butcher knife will hold and remain stable results in the longest lasting sharpness. Also, the keener the edge the longer it stays sharp.
They demonstrate, on the knives they tested, a 12 degree per side or 24 degree inclusive edge is optimum. In fact, edges sharpened at 12degrees stayed sharp 3 times longer than an edge at 20 degrees, twice as long as a knife sharpened to 15 degrees.
Results from other types of knives would be interesting.
They have a host of other research on their site. Good stuff…

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$diesel$

· #446 · 3 mo ago

Yes, i do use white or blue rouge on the MDF. I find that it works best at high speed.

Your video is very intriguing, but i'm too lazy to do the fine edges your doing.
Fillet knives and such, i sharpen to 15* included. Just about all others, i sharpen to 20-22*. From there to the Wen, then strop with Ken Onion, however, i like your idea of finishing on a leather 1X30.

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Lazy 8

Discussion Starter · #447 · 3 mo ago

Good morning all you knifers. Here's my latest knife. Victorinox Swiss Army Farmer Knife. For no more room than it takes up in your pocket, it could come in very handy. This one has aluminum slabs.
But now I'm back to carrying two knives at a time. As nice as this SAK is, (Swiss Army Knife) I simply cannot leave my Spyderco Sage I with carbon fiber scales at home. I hope to be buried with it.

Here's the SAK and I'll get a pic of the Sage I later.

Hand Sleeve Knife Tool Wood

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Moo Juice

· #448 · 3 mo ago

Hey lazy, want to see want that knife looks like after 39 years of being carried every day?

Brown Wood Rectangle Handle Bumper

My brother in law gave this to me in 1984 when he married my sister. I was in the fourth grade. Carried it to school and everywhere, everyday since. The cross and checkering have been worn smooth as well as the rivets. She's seen countless bale strings, hose clamps, leather belts and the like. She's gotten me out of many a pickle. One of my most cherished possessions.

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Gottagofishn

· #449 · 3 mo ago

Lazy 8 said:
Good morning all you knifers. Here's my latest knife. Victorinox Swiss Army Farmer Knife. For no more room than it takes up in your pocket, it could come in very handy. This one has aluminum slabs.
But now I'm back to carrying two knives at a time. As nice as this SAK is, (Swiss Army Knife) I simply cannot leave my Spyderco Sage I with carbon fiber scales at home. I hope to be buried with it.
Here's the SAK and I'll get a pic of the Sage I later.
View attachment 507106

Wow, beautiful tool! While I don’t carry my Wave every day it does go with me for all outdoor activities… Fishing, biking anything where you could possibly need a tool. It has saved my arse and many of my friends as well over the years. I love it.

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Gottagofishn

· #450 · 3 mo ago

Moo Juice said:
Hey lazy, want to see want that knife looks like after 39 years of being carried every day? View attachment 507107
My brother in law gave this to me in 1984 when he married my sister. I was in the fourth grade. Carried it to school and everywhere, everyday since. The cross and checkering have been worn smooth as well as the rivets. She's seen countless bale strings, hose clamps, leather belts and the like. She's gotten me out of many a pickle. One of my most cherished possessions.

That’s amazing!
Very cool to see the use…

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Gottagofishn

· #451 · 3 mo ago

I’ve been droning on about sharpening on a bench sander for a bit now. Time to post a few more observations In case anyone is thinking of sharpening this way…
I thought the quality of the steel determined how sharp I can get a knife. I’m afraid it goes deeper than that. Quality hard steel is easier for me but I think the main issue is creating a perfect apex.
The issue for me in getting a knife as sharp as a double edged razor blade with a 1 x 30 bench sander is doing it freehand. Unguided I vary the angle the slightest bit… this can prevent creating a perfect apex. A burr must be created on both sides equally to achieve a perfect apex. This becomes more challenging the finer the grit. When trying to get a blade as sharp as possible I achieve that even burr by shining a bright flashlight on the edge and looking for a symmetrical burr after every pass. Only after the burr is perfect do I move on to stropping.
Stropping compound makes a huge difference and takes the sharpness to another level.. For me, using a leather strop with the bench sander I use a lightly oiled leather strop with Tormek honing paste and do one or two passes per side. I then use another strop with pure chromium oxide and make 1 or two very light passes. This will polish the edge and increase the sharpness by up up to 120 points on the BESS. This does not remove metal, only polishes.
I’m talking about crazy sharp blades… I know the vast majority of knife owners just want a working edge so all of this is a moot point. I do it just for the challenge … To put it in perspective, I bought a Rapala filet knife yesterday. Out of the package it tested at 265 on the BESS (pretty typical for most new knives). After sharpening it now tests at 110. A utility razor blade tests around 200.
The last thing about creating a lasting edge. The sharper your edge, the longer it will stay sharp, for a variety of reasons.
Time to get the boat ready!

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Lazy 8

Discussion Starter · #452 · 3 mo ago

My Dad would sharpen the knives of his coworkers. But he would always ask, what are you going to do with this knife? Are you going to open cardboard boxes or shave arm hair to impress your friends?
Then he would sharpen it accordingly. For cardboard he would out what he called a working edge on it. The hair shaving edge was a tad steeper.
When I asked dad as a young buck why he just didn't put the hair shaving edge on all of them he said, it's like sharpening a pencil to a very fine point. The first time you bear down on it what happens to it? It made sense to me when he broke it down like that.
But hey, to each his own. It's your knife. Sharpen them as you please. No disrespect intended.

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Lazy 8

Discussion Starter · #453 · 3 mo ago

Moo Juice said:
Hey lazy, want to see want that knife looks like after 39 years of being carried every day? View attachment 507107
My brother in law gave this to me in 1984 when he married my sister. I was in the fourth grade. Carried it to school and everywhere, everyday since. The cross and checkering have been worn smooth as well as the rivets. She's seen countless bale strings, hose clamps, leather belts and the like. She's gotten me out of many a pickle. One of my most cherished possessions.

That knife looks like it's seen a whole LOTTA love and stainless means just that. It stains less than other steels.
Thanks Moo!

Reactions: 3

$diesel$

· #454 · 3 mo ago

Great old knife, moo.
If you ever need it repaired, let me know.

I'm the same way, lazy. I don't like making certain knives "too" sharp. I like a convex edge cuz it seems to hold up longer, and your dads advise makes a lot of sense.
Don't tell anyone, but i use the blunter edge so folks aren't bugging me every three months to resharpen them.

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Gottagofishn

· #455 · 3 mo ago

Lazy 8 said:
My Dad would sharpen the knives of his coworkers. But he would always ask, what are you going to do with this knife? Are you going to open cardboard boxes or shave arm hair to impress your friends?
Then he would sharpen it accordingly. For cardboard he would out what he called a working edge on it. The hair shaving edge was a tad steeper.
When I asked dad as a young buck why he just didn't put the hair shaving edge on all of them he said, it's like sharpening a pencil to a very fine point. The first time you bear down on it what happens to it? It made sense to me when he broke it down like that.
But hey, to each his own. It's your knife. Sharpen them as you please. No disrespect intended.

I get the different angles based on usage and steel hardness/ toughness. I ask the same before I sharpen.
My thing has been how sharp I can get my own knives. I don’t dwell on it with knives I’m sharpening for other folks as I don’t want to remove unnecessary steel.

I would really love to see some numbers on the BESS from knives sharpened on a stone by hand. I bet numbers would be way lower than what I’m getting with the bench sander.

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Lazy 8

Discussion Starter · #456 · 3 mo ago

Does that repair also include a, spa treatment?

I like your thoughts about a convex edge. Have you ever tried a sabre or high sabre edge? I've heard the the sabre is a cross between a gull flat grind and a convex. Supposedly able to perform wood duties as well as food prep. Great for camp or bushcrafting.

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Lazy 8

Discussion Starter · #457 · 3 mo ago

Gottagofishn said:
I get the different angles based on usage and steel hardness/ toughness. I ask the same before I sharpen.
My thing has been how sharp I can get my own knives. I don’t dwell on it with knives I’m sharpening for other folks as I don’t want to remove unnecessary steel.

I would really love to see some numbers on the BESS from knives sharpened on a stone by hand. I bet numbers would be way lower than what I’m getting with the bench sander.

You're prolly correct in your assumption but the wet rock is good enough for my needs.
Quick story about my Dad. He always carried a 3 bladed stockman as did my brother and I.
They had a sales person bring in a new set of dicer blades where dad worked in maintenance. The salesman said, alright, I hear you hillbillies carry so sharp knives, let me borrow one to open this box. Everybody told dad to loan him a knife. Dad opened his clip point blade that he kept hair shaving sharp. The salesman sliced open the box like hot butter and said, well, they were right about you hillbillies.
Then dad told me he had to resharpen the blade when he got home.

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$diesel$

· #458 · 3 mo ago

Honestly, lazy, i don't even know what a saber edge is?
I've been making knives for 12 years and i learned more about sharpening from Gottagofishn, in the last several weeks, than i ever knew.
I'm just too lazy to put on an edge like that, no pun intended.

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Lazy 8

Discussion Starter · #459 · 3 mo ago

$diesel$ said:
Honestly, lazy, i don't even know what a saber edge is?
I've been making knives for 12 years and i learned more about sharpening from Gottagofishn, in the last several weeks, than i ever knew.
I'm just too lazy to put on an edge like that, no pun intended.

Hey, stick with what you got and know. It evidently ain't broken.

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Rooster

· #460 · 2 mo ago

Just picked this up, and plan to use and abuse it. I will be using it a lot for camp food prep. Would you suggest stripping the coating (I've never done anything like that), or leaving as is?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

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