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A little football talk

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by athensfishin', Sep 1, 2007.

  1. athensfishin'

    athensfishin' Fighting the Man

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    Anyone willing to start accepting the fact that the BCS is a just another good ol' boy system at work. You have Michigan being handled by appy state, ISU being beat by Kent state at home, and OSU's man handling in the National Championship. I'm sure there will be countless more upsets this year because the Big 10(11) and the Big 12 are dying conferences are are only still hanging in because the BCS protects their post season prospects and there for improving their recruiting. The only real powerhouse conference anymore is the SEC from top to bottom over powers any other conference.
     
  2. Justin S

    Justin S c-ya on the water

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    the SEC is a powerhouse, but dont count out the BIG10 just yet, and as far as the BCS it is crap there should be a playoff system which would have avoided what happend last year because OSU would not have been so rusty from sitting for 40 some days.


    P.S. its 2:34 and Michigan still sucks!
     

  3. All I can say is go Mt. Union Raiders!!!!!!!!!
     
  4. The Big 10 and the Big 12 are dying conferences? I do agree that the SEC is a powerhouse, but to say that the Big 10 and Big 12 are dying conferences is ridiculous. The Big 10 was 2-1 against the SEC in bowl games last year, so I wouldn't say that the SEC is a true powerhouse. Sure, OSU was blown out by Florida in the national championship game, but Penn State and Wisconsin beat two very respectable programs last year (Tennessee and Arkansas). That is just my 2 cents. I am a Buckeye fan and will always defend the Big 10 conference.
     
  5. I doubt you will get many to argue against the SEC being a powerhouse conference but it would be insane to put them above all the rest. If so, where does the PAC-10 fall in the list. How can you leave out a conference that has the national champion in so many of the recent years. Top to bottom it is probably not equal to the SEC but it is strong. And the Big Ten is also very strong, perhaps stronger top to the bottom than the PAC-10 but lacking the one dominant one at the top that the PAC-10 has.

    By the way I watched a game Friday night with your SEC powerhouse getting it handed to them by the PAC-10.;) (Cal over Tennessee)

    I agree that the BCS is extremely flawed but it is the system in place now and everyone needs to win games to even stand a chance to play in the title game. That part has not changed. The only thing is that at the end of the season you may end up with a difference of opinion on 2 or 3 teams worthy of the title. That conversation has existed for decades so we are not dealing with anything new. I don't view it as a case of conferences being catered to or having "dying conferences". Hopefully somehow they will figure out a way to resolve the money issue regarding the bowl allegiance and they can come up with something. Until then the teams just need to win every game put in front of them and let the so-called exerts sort it out at the end.;)
     
  6. The SEC is a good conference but so are the big ten and Pac 10. The SEC has one build in advantage over the other conferences. It plays in the hot humid south. And were are the bowl games? The hot humid south. Buy the time bowl games are played most of the country is in winter. So the players lose the endurance you gain in the hot weather b/c cool air is denser and holds more oxygen. I'd like to see Florida play in Ohio in January. The BCS should move the games around the country to provide a more equal playing field.
    My only other complaint would be that all of the teams should end play in the same week so no team has to wait 45 days to play in the bowl games.
     
  7. Hook N Book

    Hook N Book The Original Hot Rod Staff Member

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    Oh Yeah, Kentucky, Vanderbuilt, Ole Miss and Mississipi state are surely pereniannal powerhouse teams. :D
    The big 10 always has and continues to be boring football with the same teams at the top.
    It amazes me that no one acknowledges the Big East which happened to go 5 and 0 in bowl games last year. ;)
    And yes, I agree, the BCS sucks...! It's time for a playoff system. But of course that probably won't happen since there is so much tradition (read money) with the big Bowl games. They will not be going away anytime soon.
    And there you have it...!
     
  8. Perch

    Perch Perch Addict

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    Sure was nice seeing Michigan getting their Donkies handed to them in Ann Arbor...Man that must have REALLY REALLY sucked to be a fan in the Bighouse Saturday.........So BCS, how can a Div 1A team even have a CHANCE of winning the National Championship after being beaten by a 2A school? Michigan should be Auto-disqualified for the Final Game.....If you pad your schedule like all big 1A schools do, then suffer if you blow it........

    What DOES really suck is the new BIG TEN TV network..........Cant even watch the Bucks now, gotta listen on Radio ............BOOOOOO ! :mad:
     
  9. catking

    catking Banned

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    All good points. But lets face it, only up until just a few shorts years ago, the SEC had only a few good teams year in and year out. How many national titles has the SEC have compared to say the Big 10 , Pac 10 or even the big 12 , that has some GREAT teams in it ( Nebraska , Texas, Oklahoma....) how many championships has them teams won or played for??? The SEC is a " now " conferance, lets see in say 20 years how the LSU's are doing, and lets not forget that Arkansas was in tyhe SWC with Texas for years, not the SEC I do believe.....:p DA KING !!!
     
  10. It was great weekend for Cleveland and Ohio Sports period!

    its 11:54 Am and Michigan sucks...
     
  11. athensfishin'

    athensfishin' Fighting the Man

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    The pac-10? really USC and Cal theres your conference the rest rise to sub-par at best. I am not an SEC fan, in fact I prefer mid-major football much more as I feel that it is the only un-polluted college football left. You cannot go to 9 out of 10 BCS football games without seeing that it is merely the marketing of college talent at a professional price.

    If you are still doubting it take a look at the graduation rates of most of the schools and you can see that they take on people who have no hopes of graduation. If they do graduate it's usually in something along the lines of under-water basket weaving and then are left to the dogs after graduation. Don't get me wrong there are some genuine student athletes and we have all heard about them because when ESPN does find one they have a 3 hr special on how this is such a great person but this is the exception not the rule. money makes the world go round and unfortunately it is also allowing the blur of the lines between professional sports and college student athletes. Then if you are still willing to live with the corruption of college football look into how dirty most of these programs are ran. all the while most people could care-less because it's just entertainment not like it's a real college or anything.
     
  12. I guess I am having a tough time keeping track of where you are going with your posts. First you appeared to be questioning the strength of certain conferences and the BCS format. Now you are attacking universities for their sports program practices, graduation rates, etc. You have managed to touch on a whole gamut of debate issues concerning college athletics. That sounds to me like a lot more than just a "little football talk" as your title suggest.;):D
     
  13. SwollenGoat

    SwollenGoat Scourge of Hoover

    First off, don't kid yourself. I played division III college football and let me say that even at that level there is corruption. Maybe not so much by the school's themselves but definately from the Boosters and alumni - which is a big part of football at every level. Face it, football is big money for every college and money generated from football is what carries 70% of the other sports that don't draw enough crowds (money) to warrant even having them.

    Secondly, I too am not sure what you're pointing out - you definately sound like you have an axe to grind. Are you upset that the SEC doesn't receive the kind of recognition that other older conferences do? Or are you upset that money has a profound effect on the way things are? (Get used to it.)

    Lastly, as for the SEC...
    Yes, they have many good teams - though as Hook N Book mentioned they have their fair share of "filler" teams too. Yes, they don't receive as much media attention as other leagues. Yes, they've managed to recruit some great players - though what guy wouldn't want to go to school where the girls wear bikinis at the beach 3/4 the year. But to say that the Big 10 or any other league is "dying" is just foolishness.

    BTW - I agree that the BCS is bull...most folks do. I'm all for a playoff system and then let the chips fall where they may.
     
  14. I couldn't agree more about the BCS. I think it's crap and would rather go back to the "good ole' days" of the conference affiliated bowl games or go to a playoff system. As far as your football power conferences, I agree with King...lets see where SEC football is in 20 years. They have a short tradition of quality and depth of teams. The Big Ten has "been there" for years and again last year was overshadowed by more "glamorous" conferences, but usually usually show the rest of the country "how the boar sh#ts in the buckwheat" when bowl game time arrives. Year-in and year-out the Big-10 more than holds their own.

    As far as schools taking on student-athletes who have no hope of graduating, there are qualifications any potential student-athlete must achieve and maintain which are set by the NCAA. Some schools have even more stringent standards. Are you implying that some schools don't follow these rules? I think most student-athletes realize that their future will not involve collecting a paycheck from a professional team and are there (at college) to both compete and to get a degree. If they can do both while getting a "free" education, then God bless them.

    Tim

    BTW-The Ohio State University Buckeyes football team has led the Big-Ten Conference in the number of Scholar Athletes for 5 consecutive years.
     
  15. athensfishin'

    athensfishin' Fighting the Man

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    meh, I tend to type free associatively and follow down the next beef I have. It started out as just a little football banter but then slowly despite my attempts some of my other beefs found their way out there. But overall yes I am beginning to despite what football has become and it makes me a little sad on the inside:(

    Let me give this another shot. BCS inception big 10 and big 12 are on top, and if you look at them most are the states largest school so they rightful start out on top.

    Now The BCS by nature keeps the top teams on top and makes it damn near impossible for anyone else to break into that category. Take Boise state they will have to field a team to the level of last year for at least 4 years before they will be considered for #1. So we send the same pool of about 8-10 schools to the championship for now until the end of time. Recruits of championship quality will not look at other schools unless there is a specific reason, academics or geography. So what we have developed is a system where the top stays on the top and the bottom gets it's dangle of bait by the congress's ask for change just so on the surface they feel they even have a chance.

    With that we then look at the big 10 and the big 12 because of the past they get the automatic no questions asked they will be good. They pretty much get picks of the recruiting pool and pretty much have the largest budgets to play with. Even with all of the advantages these two conferences have slowly been losing their distinct advantage. Let's take Nebraska for example, Back in the old school days of football Nebraska had the best, period, strength and conditioning system and facilities. This is the major factor in their dominance of the big Nebraska era, of course it wasn't long that all the major players followed suit. Since these major players had the resources they were able to adopt and unroll these sort of changes fast. Now we have smaller schools with budgets developing and more innovative coaching staffs developing the latest new trends. Big school coaches do not innovate you just do what has worked and do enough not to lose your multi-million dollar job. Also we can look at the steady decline of the power players with the limiting of scholarships and other major levelers unveiled by the NCAA.

    So I look at the past to draw my conclusions, nobody will be at the top forever. These smaller schools are closing the recruit gap and the budgets are following suit as the schools grow. With these schools innovating and upsets becoming more and more common, I believe we are seeing the effect of meeting the point where natural change is happening while the BCS system is fighting to keep the norm because that's what it was developed for.

    Again I am not an SEC fan, It does bother me the way money effects things but I realize that is the nature of the beast. What does bother me is the way all of these things combined Past + BCS + Media do their best to fight change tooth and nail even if it is to the detriment of the game, and all this largely because this is their cash cow

    If this one is off topic, sorry, I tried my best.
     
  16. SwollenGoat

    SwollenGoat Scourge of Hoover

    Athens, most college football fans would agree with much of your last post. The BCS is crap, and yes the teams that have "been there, done that" get more respect than those that haven't. However, the rules set forth by the NCAA have leveled things a lot. Powerhouse teams can't recruit and keep every star player to themselves. Plus, many talented players (perhaps not NFL material) would rather play for a "lesser" team than sit on the sidelines for a big school.

    As for money, I'm sad to admit it happens in almost all aspects of life. Doesn't matter if its football, racing, fishing, hunting, music or whatever....if there is money to be made from it, somebody will weasel and manipulate things to serve their own ends.
     
  17. I dont have a big problem with the BCS, besides the fact that New Years day is not as interesting anymore. A playoff system might be better, but it isnt something that needs to be rushed into. The problem I have is pre season rankings. Official rankings should not come out until later in the season when we actually see what teams are made of. Strenght of schedual would come more into play if they did that.