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The perfect managed and prospering Ohio deer herd

30K views 266 replies 41 participants last post by  Shad Rap 
#1 · (Edited)
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:This thread is for all those tired of the whiners and just want to talk about the great job being done in managing Ohio's deer herd with out sorting through all the negatives in other threads. Have at it guys and enjoy the bountiful deer herd provided to you by the fine efforts of the ODNR. The quality and quantity of the herd is exactly where we want for years and years to come.;););)
 
#27 ·
I am not a huge proponent of a dedicated youth season and doubt that it has any lasting impact on keeping a youth interested in hunting as he grows older. There was no youth season when I was growing up or when my son started hunting with me. I created a youth season for my son by taking him out of school to participate in the first day of the deer season.

I would really like to see the deer gun season open on the Saturday after Thanksgiving and run for 9 days giving everybody 4 weekend days to hunt. If the kids can hunt with everybody else on an Saturday opening day it would be better than a dedicated youth season in my opinion.

The dynamics involved with instilling the tradition of hunting in our youth is a much more complex problem than just giving them 2 days of season.
Well said Lundy. And that's how most of us grew up, learning and hunting with adults that took the time to show us.

When I look at some youth hunt photo's and see a small child with a buck of a lifetime. When the gun is as tall as they are, what exactly is this teaching the young one ?
 
#28 ·
I sure can't see the downside of a youth season. If a child isn't successful in the youth time frame --take him or her on opening day .
Every young Hunter(many) I've had experience with looked forward to youth waterfowl, the youth upland season and the youth deer hunt, almost like a Birthday, their special day. Maybe you made the sacrifice to take your child or grandchildren on opening day but sadly, Many won't and the young Hunters loose out.
I would like to see the youth season stay in mid Nov and not moved to Oct, giving youngsters a Good chance for success. I know some bowhunters don't like this time for the Hunter but IMO the have plenty of days to hunt.
Good luck and Good hunting
 
#29 ·
Well said Lundy. And that's how most of us grew up, learning and hunting with adults that took the time to show us.

When I look at some youth hunt photo's and see a small child with a buck of a lifetime. When the gun is as tall as they are, what exactly is this teaching the young one ?
A memory of a lifetime. My first buck during youth is the greatest memory of them all. Having my dad by myside is priceless.
 
#30 ·
A memory of a lifetime. My first buck during youth is the greatest memory of them all. Having my dad by myside is priceless.
Exactly ! I'm willing to bet it's your fathers Greatest memory also.
The more time you can spend together In the field the better.
Youth harvest numbers remain fairly low and I would think youth season has little impact on herd numbers.
Good luck and Good hunting.
 
#31 ·
And then bragging how your 15 year old can jam 2 handed. LOL!!!
I'm sorry, but you took my meaning entirely wrong. And if your 15 year old can't get the ball up to a ten foot hoop then something is extremely wrong! I'm talking more about 8 to 12 year olds, and I have no problem holding a special season for youth.

I am not a huge proponent of a dedicated youth season and doubt that it has any lasting impact on keeping a youth interested in hunting as he grows older. There was no youth season when I was growing up or when my son started hunting with me. I created a youth season for my son by taking him out of school to participate in the first day of the deer season.

I would really like to see the deer gun season open on the Saturday after Thanksgiving and run for 9 days giving everybody 4 weekend days to hunt. If the kids can hunt with everybody else on an Saturday opening day it would be better than a dedicated youth season in my opinion.

The dynamics involved with instilling the tradition of hunting in our youth is a much more complex problem than just giving them 2 days of season.
You have some good points. There's nothing that makes a day more "special" for a kid than being allowed to play hooky from school! And your idea of the "double weekend" with a week in between has merit. As long as the "extra" weekend is eliminated.

However, one place your argument falls short is your idea that we're only giving youth a 2 day season. You could take your kids, or grandkids, hunting during the youth season, and take them out again during the regular season no matter how it's constructed. After all, there are no rules prohibiting youth participation in such seasons.
 
#32 ·
Certainly wasn't implying that they only get two days, just stating that them getting an extra two days won't make any difference in a youth developing and maintaining the desire to hunt. They will either get it or they won't

If they are hunting with dad Sat, Sun of youth season or Sat Sun the first two days of gun season shouldn't make a difference.

Youth or no youth or when it would occur really makes no difference to me either way. However to hang the future on hunting tradition on a youth season is a little over stated
 
#33 ·
All the kids in my area look at it like a holiday. Its talked about in school and has a big build up. Its their piece of the pie. I would have to think kids who have shown no interest in hunting may over hear other kids talking and ask their parents to take them hunting. Then at lunch time at the local eateries is a bunch of kids talking it up. It does nothing but good for hunting.
 
#34 ·
Certainly wasn't implying that they only get two days, just stating that them getting an extra two days won't make any difference in a youth developing and maintaining the desire to hunt. They will either get it or they won't

If they are hunting with dad Sat, Sun of youth season or Sat Sun the first two days of gun season shouldn't make a difference.

Youth or no youth or when it would occur really makes no difference to me either way. However to hang the future on hunting tradition on a youth season is a little over stated
It sure can't hurt . Most young Hunters I known , as Ostbucks pointed out,consider it "Special.Just another tool in the box of ''tricks'' to get kids hooked. Kinda like the Cherry on top of the Sundae.
Another good thing about youth day --- what about the poor dad who can not wiggle of work on Monday to take a youth hunting or has multiple children to take hunting😏. Youngest hunts youth day and maybe the older goes on the opener.I hear Many hunters complain about working the opener.
Some just are unable to go and kids don't get the opportunity. I'm all in on all the youth events.
Good luck and Good hunting
 
#35 ·
We all have our opinions of youth season, but if you want to do some good for our youth and hunting, take them video games away and throw them in the trash. Why would a kid go outside when it's cold, when they sit on the couch and play "Hunt" ?
 
#36 · (Edited)
My best hunts ever had been on the youth hunts. I really like the fact that the primary focus is on them. I think it gets more kids in the woods because folks are available to take them that otherwise may be hunting themselves. Not all kids have a father or family member that hunts. The only thing I would like to see change is there be a one deer limit. Most kids are very happy shooting "a deer". I don't think shooting 2,3 or 4 deer makes them any happier. I have always practiced this with my son. IMOP shooting up the woods...even though it's lawful...is NOT a good practice to teach our youth. Just my opinion.
 
#37 ·
There are pros and cons to each position, but I tend to lean in the direction of giving the young'uns their shot. It doesn't impinge on us very much, other than time, which is the most precious wealth you can spend in the raising of a child.

As Lundy said, "They will either get it or they won't." Back in the day my best friend was one of 4 Sons. His Dad hunted. Particularly rabbits over a brace of Beagles. But, he hunted everything and fished as well. Of the 4 Sons, two of them "got it" and two of them didn't. At any rate they all turned out to be successful in their own right.

But back then there weren't so many distractions. We were outside constantly. Our parents had to come chase us indoors, not chase us outdoors! In Summer we'd play basketball all evening under a street light on a hoop we had mounted to a telephone pole. When the nightly news signed of at 11:30 our folks had to yell at us to get in the damn house!

It's not like that any more.
 
#40 ·
From 2007 news release

Ohio deer hunters took a record 237,316 deer during the 2006-07 hunting season and for the third year in a row the harvest surpassed 200,000, according to the Ohio Department of Natural Resources (ODNR) Division of Wildlife. The total number of deer taken was 13 percent above last year's season total of 209,513.

Ahhhh the good ole days!
 
#43 ·
Three weeks ago, the corn was harvested on the 400 acre farm across the road and 80 acre farm beside my house. Now food barren ground. Ohio farm bureau wants the deer herd held at 250,000 state wide. Drought the last two years have cut mast crops severely in my area. There are only 3 deer in 6 sq. mile of my house. In 2012 EHD hit my area hard. My ignorant neighbor still hunted the three deer left. AMAZING! If You have a good population of deer, God bless YOU, do everything possible to keep it that way. If not, do everything You can to allow it to return.

I am 100% with Lundy, ODNR interest is not the same as the hunters. Go ahead and listen to ODNR statistics and bag limits, when You should be looking with your own eyes.
 
#48 ·
Not going to lie... years ago (200k) plus years myself and my group were eating venison twice a week year round... we bought and filled many tags because the ODNR said the quality of the herd was in jeopardy. We were selective on our private lands but brown down on public. Hell its what was preached to us by the ODNR. The results are in now for our own ignorance. We trusted the biologists and law makers. They were even making diversified wild life ares by totally clear cutting public lands. It was going to make hunting great for years to come!!!
 
#52 ·
I don't understand any of this, during the so called hay days of the deer hunting the odnr were trying to reduce the deer herd. It was never any kind of a secret it was and always has been the plan. The whole idea is to have enough deer to hunt and few enough deer that there is not an economic strain on the farmers or people driving in their cars. It was and still is the whole point of the management system. The odnr has meetings open to the public every spring and they wait get this ENCOURAGE people to attend and give their thoughts. I encourage people that have opinions to please go.
 
#53 ·
I have never understood how hunters blame their immediate local deer populations levels on the ODNR. The ODNR didn't shoot any deer.

You would think that any hunter or group of hunters would have a much better understanding of the population on any given piece of land they hunt than the ODNR would. The ODNR, the same ODNR that has never set foot on the property you hunt tells you that you have too many deer and to shoot more and you do it because they said to? It is really difficult to understand how anyone that is even remotely educated about deer populations of the land they hunt could so blindly follow a directive that was counterproductive to their now loudly stated whining of wanting more deer because they killed them all. They now want the ODNR to now fix what the ODNR didn't break to begin with, they did.

"We were selective on our private lands but brown down on public. Hell its what was preached to us by the ODNR"

This begs the question of why were you selective on your private lands but not on public lands? Was the ODNR directive different for private harvest versus public?.Of course not in fact it was just the opposite.

" The ODNR made me do it" , no credibility, sad and funny at the same time
 
#57 ·
Last time I checked ODNR was a government organization funded with my tax money and wild life fees. I could only assume they had hunters, farm owners and unfortunately insurance companys in mind when setting limits. They had the latter in mind but never the hunters. You posted for years how you controlled your private land... so your saying the millions in ODNR salaries isn't necessary?
 
#55 ·
Lundy, the local deer around my place have not recovered from EHD, but some people just are not diciplined enough to not hunt them for awhile. If the ODNR would allow deer season all year with no bag limits, there are people who would hunt to the last deer was killed. Look what has happened in the past.
 
#56 ·
Lundy, I can't believe anyone can blame hunters for what has been done to our public land deer herd. In my opinion anyone with an open mind can understand the reason why we set limits is to control hunters for the best interests of the game and fish they seek. Imagine Lake Erie with no Walleye limits. Same with ducks. We sportsmen need protected from ourselves like it or not it is a fact.To blame hunters makes no sense. You can blame the land owner/farmer that can control what comes off his private land but public is a free for all and without limits you get what we got. A resource that has been over harvested and an agency that does not care!
 
#59 ·
I sit and read these post and absolutely love how certain people , not saying just in this thread, are uneducated to all the workings that goes into odnr's processes on managing not only wildlife but all resources, and continue to bitch and complain about EVERYTHING. ODNR has a website and headquarters where you can visit for an application or submit your resume. I don't claim personally to know more than odnr in the field or the office that's why I work heavy construction. But hey from what it reads lately in way too many threads is if alot of the people here complaining and saying they know more than the state all applied and were hired we'd have the best management of resources in the country. Go ahead and jump me now.
 
#60 ·
I love how these blood thirsty hunters blame the ODNR for less deer. Just because they say you can kill "X" number of deer does not mean that you have to. Not only did these hunters slit thier own throats by slaughtering every antler less deer they could they also padded the ODNRs pockets 24 dollars each time they did it. The state didn't kill these deer greedy hunters with zero self control did. The best part is they never made it a secret that they wanted the herd reduced. They knew exactly what was going to happen when they set high limits. So instead of looking in the mirror as to who is to blame these hunters point fingers at the state. If the state next year said that we could kill 5 antlered deer a year these same hunters would do it. Then the following year after that they would cry about not seeing any mature antlered deer. Some people just can not open thier eyes. The only thing that you can control in life is what you do.
 
#61 · (Edited)
I love how these blood thirsty hunters blame the ODNR for less deer. Just because they say you can kill "X" number of deer does not mean that you have to. Not only did these hunters slit thier own throats by slaughtering every antler less deer they could they also padded the ODNRs pockets 24 dollars each time they did it. The state didn't kill these deer greedy hunters with zero self control did. The best part is they never made it a secret eoples interestlimits. So instead of looking in the mirror as to who is to blame these hunters point fingers at the state. If the state next year said that we could kill 5 antlered deer a year these same hunters would do it. Then the following year after that they would cry about not seeing any mature antlered deer. Some people just can not open thier eyes. The only thing that you can control in life is what you do.
All well and good. Now I have not hunted my area since 2012 because of EHD, but I have a neighbor who hunted the 3 deer left. I cannot control that. Also, I cannot control what people do on public or private land I don't own. So yes, a lot of us are at the mercy of what the ODNR decides to do as an agency, so it is not too much for people like me to expect our interest be looked after as well.
 
#62 ·
I'm going to check out of this one for now... nice play on words Lundy... you want to blame me? I've hunted with a damn camera over the past few years mostly. Have culled a few scrub bucks on our secret piece of heaven though. That's fine you blame me though could you send me the money you're given the ODNR over the years now. I enjoy that the ODNR has gotten into the logging and even oil industry also it's all to benefit the hunters... lmao at the people who think it's all the public fault... none of us got rich only shot deer to improve the herd as we were told!!!
 
#64 ·
Quit using the word 'we' or 'us'...because you obviously are the minority...I'm not saying the deer herd is anymore abundant now than it has been in the past...but I've never felt the need to kill more than 1 deer a year anyway...even when bag limits were raised...and if I did, I definitely wouldnt be bitching about the population...most hunters are lucky to kill one deer a year...and thats how it should be...it's called hunting for a reason.
 
#63 · (Edited)
Man up. You pulled the trigger. Coming here crying once a year won't help a damn thing.

Everyone that pulled the trigger helped with the current deer population. The odnr didn't make anyone pull the trigger. Keep blaming everyone but yourself if it makes you feel better. The blame game is suppose to end in grade school. It's time to accept responsibility for what you and every other hunter has done. We all make our own decisions in life and should expect to admit the results of those actions.
The discussion should be more about how the heck to fix the problem not to keep blaming the odnr. They have a much different agenda than the hunters do.
 
#65 ·
Man up. You pulled the trigger. Coming here crying once a year won't help a damn thing.

Everyone that pulled the trigger helped with the current deer population. The odnr didn't make anyone pull the trigger. Keep blaming everyone but yourself if it makes you feel better. The blame game is suppose to end in grade school. It's time to accept responsibility for what you and every other hunter has done. We all make our own decisions in life and should expect to admit the results of those actions.
The discussion should be more about how the heck to fix the problem not to keep blaming the odnr. They have a much different agenda than the hunters do.
Exactly! I'm lucky in the fact that I have multiple places to hunt. In a few of the areas I will not shoot a doe. They just do not have the amount of deer to kill a doe on. Why hammer deer on places that do not have the numbers. It only takes beans off your plate in future years.
 
#66 ·
hoping to cash,

Please don't miss my intended point. I am not always in agreement with the management polices of the ODNR, but I am fully aware of the difficult job that they have to managing all of the wildlife resources and balancing for the needs of all vested interests.

They, through their evaluation process determined that the deer population needed to be reduced. They never hid that population management plan, they openly promoted the harvest of many more deer statewide to reduce the population through public announcements, increased bag limits and reduced tag pricing. The intent was loud and clear.

They certainly tried to sell the benefit of less deer to hunters as beneficial to the deer itself. Charts and graphs with deer densities, how antler size was declining, over browsing, etc, etc, etc. I am sure what they presented was factual but feel it was oversold to the hunting community to create enthusiasm for the task ahead, which was killing more deer, lots of more deer.

The problem arises, and also creates a huge challenge to the ODNR is how to evenly reduce a deer herd that is not evenly distributed across the state. They can't, which leads to different reductions in different areas even different areas withing the same county. Their changes in the bag limits and managing now more by county versus by huge zones should show that they are no managing the results of the initial statewide mass reduction they set out to achieve.

I am not trying to be overly critical of a hunter that killed a bunch of deer during the times of high population and increased opportunity if they believed they were doing it for all of the right reasons that the ODNR laid out to them. However If the ODNR tells you there are too many deer on the property you hunt I think the hunter can make a more informed assessment than the ODNR and manage their deer harvest accordingly.

My single biggest problem isn't the hunter participation in the herd reduction plan it is the attempt by these same hunters to now lay total responsibility and accountability on anyone but themselves for the current status of their local deer population (EHD aside, that is all on to itself a different problem). Many say they didn't know what they were doing, they were mislead by the ODNR. I say that would serve to illistrate either a blatant lack of understanding of the resource or a less than honest position. When someone states that on public lands "brown it's down" on our private lands "more selective" has a problem selling to me that their efforts were a result of the ODNR plan. The ODNR never said the population is way too high on public lands, kill more, but not as many on private properties.

Again, The ODNR clearly stated their goals, hunters gleefully participated, the reduction has occurred, recent regulation change is in place to manage the reduced population, hunters are going to see less deer today as a whole than previously. Going forward only hunters, not the ODNR(minus a closed season), can have any impact of the future of their local deer populations, higher or lower.

I'm sure you are a really nice guy so please forgive my frustration towards those that continue to blame the ODNR. I just can't get there and have trouble understanding those that do.
 
#69 ·
hoping to cash,

Please don't miss my intended point. I am not always in agreement with the management polices of the ODNR, but I am fully aware of the difficult job that they have to managing all of the wildlife resources and balancing for the needs of all vested interests.

They, through their evaluation process determined that the deer population needed to be reduced. They never hid that population management plan, they openly promoted the harvest of many more deer statewide to reduce the population through public announcements, increased bag limits and reduced tag pricing. The intent was loud and clear.

They certainly tried to sell the benefit of less deer to hunters as beneficial to the deer itself. Charts and graphs with deer densities, how antler size was declining, over browsing, etc, etc, etc. I am sure what they presented was factual but feel it was oversold to the hunting community to create enthusiasm for the task ahead, which was killing more deer, lots of more deer.

The problem arises, and also creates a huge challenge to the ODNR is how to evenly reduce a deer herd that is not evenly distributed across the state. They can't, which leads to different reductions in different areas even different areas withing the same county. Their changes in the bag limits and managing now more by county versus by huge zones should show that they are no managing the results of the initial statewide mass reduction they set out to achieve.

I am not trying to be overly critical of a hunter that killed a bunch of deer during the times of high population and increased opportunity if they believed they were doing it for all of the right reasons that the ODNR laid out to them. However If the ODNR tells you there are too many deer on the property you hunt I think the hunter can make a more informed assessment than the ODNR and manage their deer harvest accordingly.

My single biggest problem isn't the hunter participation in the herd reduction plan it is the attempt by these same hunters to now lay total responsibility and accountability on anyone but themselves for the current status of their local deer population (EHD aside, that is all on to itself a different problem). Many say they didn't know what they were doing, they were mislead by the ODNR. I say that would serve to illistrate either a blatant lack of understanding of the resource or a less than honest position. When someone states that on public lands "brown it's down" on our private lands "more selective" has a problem selling to me that their efforts were a result of the ODNR plan. The ODNR never said the population is way too high on public lands, kill more, but not as many on private properties.

Again, The ODNR clearly stated their goals, hunters gleefully participated, the reduction has occurred, recent regulation change is in place to manage the reduced population, hunters are going to see less deer today as a whole than previously. Going forward only hunters, not the ODNR(minus a closed season), can have any impact of the future of their local deer populations, higher or lower.

I'm sure you are a really nice guy so please forgive my frustration towards those that continue to blame the ODNR. I just can't get there and have trouble understanding those that do.
Excellent post Lundy. I agree with just about all of it. Can you give us your thoughts on why the DOW threw the baby out with the bath water so to speak by not coming out with different tag numbers or regulations for public lands in the past several years. They know full well and saw that that the result of the cheap and plentiful tags would impact public lands the most but never did a thing to remedy this. Are we to believe the public lands then needed more deer reduced than private? Did they not care? I just can't grasp this lack of management action. The one size fits all approach has decimated many areas of public lands. Would you agree they could of, should of done better by the land we all own (public) and none of us as individual hunters can do much to control? Where they were needed the most they dropped the ball in my view. I agree hunters as a whole are responsible but just as responsible is the organization paid by our tax dollars to manage and they failed to truly manage the public herd with any thought to those that primarily hunt it.
 
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