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The perfect managed and prospering Ohio deer herd

Discussion in 'Bucks and Does' started by hopin to cash, Feb 28, 2015.

  1. Flathead76

    Flathead76 Carp53.65

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    You should look back on some of thier posts then before saying that I am out of line. Many have the attitude that if they are on public and have tags that they mine as well shoot every single deer that they are legally allowed. It's not thier private land so why not. They can not manage it and if they don't the next guy will shoot them anyways. When I hunted in Pennsylvania when we started to see a reduction in deer numbers we did our own management plan as non-residents. In our zone they only allowed x number of antlerless tags. They usually sell out in two days. Our group of 10-12 would try to get the max of 2 tags each. The Sunday before rifle season we would have a tag burning party on all the antlerless tags that we purchased. That's a lot of money that we were sending up in ashes trying to do our part to save the huntable deer population on the state game lands that we hunted. Just because you can kill x amount of deer does not mean that you have to. The hunting got so bad there that the last time our group hunted we saw 5 deer in 5 days of hunting. We finally gave up and sold the cabin. So comparing big blocks of private to public is an apples to apples argument IMO. The greedy hunters kill the deer not the state.
     
    hopintocash2 likes this.
  2. Flathead76

    Flathead76 Carp53.65

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    The hunter because he could see that that the numbers were down and he went for it anyways. That's what you call slicing you own throat. I won't feel bad for him next year when he does not see hardly any deer. He got his now so let's blame the state for killing the deer in the future. People like that are what the state is counting on. When people get fed up and only purchase one deer tag per season is when the DNR will wake up. That's where there money is coming from.
     

  3. I have followed a lot of the back and forth between many on this site. I do not condone others comments any more than yours. Two wrongs don't make a right. Your points about P.A. make no sense to me. You said your group tried to keep up the herd size by not taking does but failed. The same is occurring to some here in this state. Hunters will take take and take and take until they can take no more. This was proven at the turn of the century and again just as you say in P.A. and now happening in Ohio. Only the State with the power to regulate can control this to any degree. Blaming hunters for over harvest is just a way of letting the state off the hook. The state is getting what they want... a significantly decreased deer herd. Hunters are blaming each other. Time marches on.
     
    fastwater and chatterbox like this.
  4. Flathead76

    Flathead76 Carp53.65

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    if only a certain amount of tags are issued it does make sense. If you buy them up and burn them it takes them out of the hand of hunters that have zero discipline. In Ohio you can not do this because it's all over the counter.
     
  5. Let me try one last time (at least for now) to voice my thoughts regarding the states part vs the hunters part in the recent reduction of the deer herd. Those that want to blame hunters seem to ignore the fact that there is a need for regulation and it is only due to regulation that we enjoy what we have today. It is not due to the great restraint of hunters doing what is best for the future of the game animal they choose to hunt. If it were like that we would have no need for regulation of weapons used, numbers allowed to be taken, start and stop times, seasons and the like. Let us just have at it with lights at night, all summer long, out of car and truck windows ect. No problem as we expect that we will police ourselves. We as hunters would be to blame then if there were no regulations and we wiped out the critters... which we would in very short order. However we do have regulations and have a right to expect that our game animals are managed thru these regulations to ensure what we are taking is sustainable. It is just not reasonable to expect hunters as a whole to do what is in their own best interests. Again if that were the case we would need no regulations at all. Hunters pull the trigger but the states liberal regulations and tags are adding opportunity to do so. Think bonus gun, 4 month archery, hunt till half hour after sunset, straight walled cartridges, telecheat etc. As individuals we need to try and make a difference and do what we feel is right. What I feel is right for me is to pass on does and share my unhappiness regarding the states failure to preserve the resource on public lands with any who will listen.
     
    fastwater likes this.
  6. I suggest you look back at the entire 3 years worth of threads fathead. I will reply to your B.S. after work tonight while I'm sipping some scotch to keep me calm! Can somebody find me a total harvest count that has actually been reported as of now while I go in here serve the lazy people I work for in America and abroad
     
  7. jray

    jray

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    And everyone continues to wholeheartedly disregard the FACT that very few hunters ever take more than one and very very few ever more than 2. Don't concern yourself with facts I'm sure your emotions are so much more accurate. 17.7% of hunters killed 2. 3.2% killed 3 and .8% killed more than 3 last year. With just under 75000 successful hunters last year, 13,275 "extra" deer were harvested by 2 deer hunters, and 4,950 were "extra" killed by 3 deer hunters. That means the outrageous practices of the ODNR were responsible for killing roughly 18,225 deer last year. Give me a break. I realize it's really easy to riot in the streets and shout f the police but there's no truth to your theory!
     
    bobk likes this.
  8. Agreed and I understand that. However as you shared even with this option it failed to make a difference and you moved on from hunting there.
    Here in Ohio what can the individual hunter do? Don't shoot does? How many public land hunters are going to pass deer. Many I know are lucky to get a shot each season they are sure not going to pass on it because its a doe. Kind of a circle. You see few deer so you shoot what you see leading to less deer. Same is happening to the bucks. See fewer so less selective.... that 1.5 year old that may have gotten a pass a few years back is going to taste real good so down he goes.
    There is a short term solution and that is find another place to hunt with a better herd size. I have been doing this the past four years. Each year though the hunting on the public lands within the distance I want to drive (up to two hours) gets tougher and tougher. I will be fine but I feel for those just coming up as I would be leaning towards another hobby. Not much fun hunting deer when you rarely see any. Responsibility for this decline is on the state not the hunters in my view.
     
    fastwater likes this.
  9. I am not sure what theory is being talked about but if it takes making public land buck only to allow for a rebound then so be it. It is not that guys are taking two or three does now days its the herd cannot rebound with whatever the number being taken is. If ten of us each take three deer of our farm and the next farm over thirty guys each take one the end result is the same..... TOO MANY DOES BEING TAKEN
     
    fastwater likes this.
  10. Flathead76

    Flathead76 Carp53.65

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    I do agree with everything in your second paragraph. On the mountain that we were hunting there were also three other camps as well having tag burning parties with us. In total around 30 hunters burning all of thier doe tags. For two years nobody in four camps killed an antlerless deer. These were all rifle camps that only got hunted for opening week of rifle and some of flintlock season. The reason it didn't work is the area is a heavily populated Amish area. Even if they only had one tag they were going to keep slaughtering.
    As far as Ohio my house is literally surrounded by public land here in athens. My back yard butts up against public land. I won't see hardly any deer until November when people start pounding the piss out of it. Since gun season ended I have been putting out corn for the few deer that are left. I have 8-10 deer coming in every evening to feed there. I have zero plans or intentions of killing one off that pile. That would be cutting my own throat for next season if I chose to hunt back there.
     
  11. How did the herd get as big as it was way back when? You know the glory days. It was quite small, way way back when. Then it got crazy big. How did that happen? And when does it bottom out? Does odnr have a number when they pull back the reigns on anterless deer?
     
  12. Flathead76

    Flathead76 Carp53.65

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    Fathead can't wait. I will take one for the team BobK.
     
  13. Well I hope they were all killed in the counties that people have said to have plenty of deer. We hunters are much like coyotes....we will go where the deer are....and many will shoot as many as the ODNR allows us. After all...if ODNR says we can kill that many,it must be ok. Right!
    Wasn't going to post anymore in this thread and am not going to get into a long winded debate but we've had many voicing opinions on whether or not ODNR is to blame or hunters are to blame for the reduced deer herd.
    Here my take while ODNR is not out there pulling the triggers on these deer, they know good and well when they set the bag limits they do, most people are gonna do their level best to fulfill each and every tag they buy.
    While we've had some very good discussions on the topic, out of the thousand of people that hunt, how many really belong to a site such as this or any other deer hunting informational site for that matter to get information on Ohio's deer, what's going on with them or if they should be taking does,bucks or whatever. I'd be willing to bet that out of all the thousands of hunters, the people on this site as well as people on other sites are a small percentage of the total number of hunters. I'd also bet that the vast majority buy their tags and go kill within the parameters that ODNR sets and that's it. These hunters aren't into the preservation of the deer herd cause they believe the ODNR has that completely under control...if ODNR says we can shoot 1 buck and 10 doe a year than that must be ok. I'd also be willing to bet that ODNR banks on this as well.
    Then there's thise that may know that shooting 3-4 does a year is killing our deer herd but don't really care. All they see is meat in the freezer.

    Sooo...while the hunters are shooting the deer... and are mostly to blame for taking ODNR's bag limit as being the best thing for our herd and not educating themselves to the contrary, ODNR plays that card and sets bag limits according. Therefore, ODNR does sholder some of the blame. I can remember not to awfully long ago ODNR encouraged shooting more does than bucks claiming we needed to balance the doe to buck ratios. Don't hear that talk much anymore...they just continue to allow the killing of many more does than bucks per year.
     
    bobk, hopintocash2 and Flathead76 like this.
  14. I saw a small article several years ago in the Cols. Dispatch that stated they wanted to get the numbers back to where they were in the mid 70's. That may have changed by now but with the current bag limits...I doubt it.

    Have asked Mike Tonkovich this same question myself on a couple different occasions and have heard it directly asked to him several other times and not once has there ever been an answer. Question always danced around.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
    hopintocash2 likes this.
  15. Well, I guess if that happens, they'll have to change there annual letter about how much money deer hunting brings into the state. Of course, I think that is already as inaccurate as there herd size estimate.
     
  16. roundheadjig

    roundheadjig Roundheadjig

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    The ODNR said that they are going to reduce the number of deer in Ohio , they didn't say how or how many...........?
     
  17. roundheadjig

    roundheadjig Roundheadjig

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    I wish you all would put together a large coyote hunt . This would help us and the deer.........?
     
  18. Dammit I just realized you are now my best supporting information... you left a state that had poorly managed deer regulations to come to a state that copied exactly what happened in PA, NJ, NY and others... is that not what the settlers did years ago... no regulations so kill as many as we can... oh no they are all gone let's move west!!! Thank you fathead I couldn't have said it any better
     
  19. jray

    jray

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    So I post proof of bag limits having essentially nothing to do with number of deer taken and it is followed immediately by more talk of "ridiculous" bag limits. You guys are something else.
     
    ldrjay likes this.
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