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Opinions on deer drives???

34K views 247 replies 55 participants last post by  Shad Rap 
#1 ·
Without stirring up a controversy, I would like to hear some opinions on deer drives. In my view I wish they were not permitted in Ohio. Deer drives are illegal in several states.
I guess being a bowhunter for so long might have slanted my view, although I still gun hunt if I haven't bagged my buck in bow season. You know, man against the deer while it is on it's normal patterns is my kind of hunting.
Over the years I have witnessed some terrible behavior by those driving deer. Recently I just witnessed several truck loads of guys pulling up to an area pushing everything. Using the spray and pray method on animals running wide open, blowing off who knows what body parts. Party hunting which means, if it's brown it's down and we'll sort out who tags what later.
Sadly, this seems to be becoming a lot more common. I could live with a well done 3 or 4 man drive, but I've seen drives with 20 or more guys. Seems more like an extermination squad rather than hunting.
Don't hit me too hard! hahaha
Lets discuss........
 
#139 ·
Just curious. Have any of you ever witnessed multiple standers kill numerous deer in one drive? The most I ever witnessed was 6 deer. His gun was not plugged and he reloaded. Have any of you had to dispatch wounded deer that resulted from a large drive? Have any of you ever witnessed over 75 shots on one drive? Have any of you ever had to yell to the drive participants that a couple of the deer they shot are laying dead close to you but they don't know it because there are dead deer laying everywhere and way too many blood trails to follow. Have you ever had to help them find the deer that crossed onto the property you are hunting because they don't know how to or care enough to. Have you ever watched the group gather at the end and then everyone start tagging the deer no matter who shot them? Have you ever had the same drivers year after year tresspass and each year say they are lost? Have you ever called the GW to report the game violations only to never even get a call back.

I have a very good vantage point from a high point on the farm I hunted and I have witnessed this numerous times every year for a whole lot of years. This year was the first year in over 20 years that the 25+ man drives didn't take place. The new owner not only purchased the farm I hunted on but most of the surrounding farms and shut them down fortunately.

This is my exposure to drives, this is what I know, this is what I have personally experienced. If this is representative of all drives, then yes, they all suck. I'm sure there are violators of game laws that hunt by all methods, I just have not been exposed to them like I have to this group. I am guessing my group is not unique or this thread would not exist.

Lewis asked for opinions, I gave it, it carries no more value that anyone elses but it is my opinion.
 
#140 · (Edited)
Like you Lundy, I have seen some of the same. Especially those on point shooting all the deer, reloading and shooting some more. Most of the time shooting at deer running wide open. The guys pushing never even seeing the deer cause they've pushed so fast making so much noise that the deer took off long before the drivers could ever see them. They then all join together, divy up the deer using tags from all involved. Which itself is illegal.

Like I stated earlier in this thread, many years ago in the late 60's early 70-s, we drove deer. We didn't have to worry about breaking the law shooting a bunch of deer on our drives. There just wasn't that many deer. You'd be lucky to see 2... maybe 3 deer driving for two or three days. And that was in prime hunting territory.

Today on drives, deer are kicking up like rabbits. And they are being killed as such. But I believe those deer numbers are slowing down a lot more and a lot faster than what we are made to believe cause I believe, not including those non huntible deer in the suburbs and parks that ODNR includes when counting our total deer population and setting bag limits accordingly, that our deer numbers are excessively down in huntible areas.

Sooo...let's keep driving and killing as many as we can, let's keep seeing if we can kill our bag limits each year. All the while the yotes will be playing havoc as well.
Just may be a good thing for those that don't remember deer hunting in the 60's-70's to experience some of that. And for what it's worth, when that happens, the deer population won't rebound quickly. With the yote population we now have, it will take many, many years if it rebounds.
 
#141 ·
You guys kill me. Is It the de er drives that bothers you or people trespassing and breaking the law?

Many of you repeatedly have lumped them together. If 25 drivers are trespassing then yes I agree this is a problem.

If 50 guys drive property they have every right to be on then I'm perfectly fine with that. If they shoot at deer on the run I'm fine with that. I do it. I've jumped and shot many deer. I've missed some as well. Its hunting.

Here is some more ammo for the anti's. Word is the Gatlinburg fires were started by two teens who were attempting to smoke out deer.
 
#149 ·
I certainly also enjoy pushing deer, never been fortunate to hunt in a group of 15 or 20, I bet that is exciting. We push in groups of 4-6 people total including pushers and standers, so not much of a group but a cluster*&^%. I have shot at deer that are moving through, not really running but more than a walk. I also enjoy bow hunting. I can say I have wounded deer with both a gun and bow in my life. Heck I have gone as far as loosing a fish that I was reeling in on Erie. So what, it is part of the sport, not that I like it a single bit. I have not wounded any deer this year, I am not sure on doves, some of them kept flying, did I put a pellet in one, maybe, I am sorry for that. But if you would like to bitch at me about it get in-line behind my mother-in-law, some crazy lady at work, as well as some pink pants guys from over there. That is if we are putting some people in categories.
 
#150 ·
I have to admit I've never seen a drive with 20 to 25 individuals and I doubt I've seen one with more than 10.
Our drives normally consist of 3-6 but I think I recall having 9 or 10 if you include a pair of youths tagging along but not actually shooting.
Honestly for the last few years it's hard for me to find hunters to drive for because most of the hunters I know have killed two or three deer before shotgun season and pursue other things. I always keep a tag for M/L but often find myself Hunting with one other person whom I'm always happy to drive for. Those small 2 or three man drives are the most fun for me and often the most successful.
Good luck and Good Hunting !
 
#153 ·
WHAT!!TF,,,??? They can PAY a driver to sit in a van for a 16 hr day!???? 3 days in a row!
THEY can hire my friends CHARTER for a whole day, & give him a $100 TIP!
I can't do that!!!


the Amish have plenty of $$$ ... they charge as much as anyone for their services but I don't think they pay a lick of taxes, which gives them 30-40% more bang for their buck, hence they can afford to pay those drivers and hire a charter ... many of those drivers are undermotivated folks working for $10 an hour under the table ... they are also no required to follow many of our "Yankee" laws ... not saying it's right, but as Joe Friday would have said ... just the facts man, just the facts
 
#157 ·
Most entertaining thread I've ever read!
We all hunt in our own way, get over it, move on.
Absolutely!

And the title of this thread asks for opinions on a particular subject.
Pro and con opinions were given. Some seem to take others opinions that they have a right to to heart and accuse people for being elitist, hypocrits etc for their opinions on a subject. Some have accused others of calling them slobs when the only thing people did was state their opinion on the subject which didnt agree with theirs
I've stated mine, others have stated theirs.
Don't think minds have been changed either way.
So yes, time to get over it and move on.

But I think it would be cool on public land if nobody stand hunted. Everybody just show up at where they're going to hunt and just walk around. Now that would really get the deer moving and even the playing field for all. :D
 
#158 ·
I've called the game warden several times on illegal deer drives on our neighboring property. It is the same scenario each time. Truckload of guys pulls up at the North gate, everyone jumps out of the truck bed and starts pushing to the standers on the South end of property, the truck takes off so no vehicles are left in view of the road. There is no hunting allowed on this property. The owners asked me to watch it and call the law on any hunters or atv trespassers. My calls were either not returned, or I was told that there was nothing the GW could do. I explained to the GW that I had eyes on the trespassers while talking to him. It didn't seem to matter to him.
 
#160 ·
Also, if you don't actually own the property, you can't press charges for trespassing.

People who complain about the wardens seem to forget that they have an entire county to cover. It's a long way from one end of my County to the other, especially driving these curvy roads. If he's on one end and I call on the other, he couldn't make it if he wanted to. They'd be gone.

You should have called the state patrol and told them that you saw them pull up with no seat belts. Odds are there was one of those traffic monitors close by.
 
#167 ·
Also, if you don't actually own the property, you can't press charges for trespassing.

People who complain about the wardens seem to forget that they have an entire county to cover. It's a long way from one end of my County to the other, especially driving these curvy roads. If he's on one end and I call on the other, he couldn't make it if he wanted to. They'd be gone.

You should have called the state patrol and told them that you saw them pull up with no seat belts. Odds are there was one of those traffic monitors close by.
I am well aware of that.
 
#162 ·
Just had this issue actually. Pulled 15 stands off of our place that weren't ours.

The GW said that the hunting without permission charge is hard to stick because they have to be caught actually hunting. However, if they admit that they're their stands, a deputy can write them a criminal trespass ticket for each one.

I doubt I'll go that route, but it's nice to know.
 
#168 ·
Just had this issue actually. Pulled 15 stands off of our place that weren't ours.

The GW said that the hunting without permission charge is hard to stick because they have to be caught actually hunting. However, if they admit that they're their stands, a deputy can write them a criminal trespass ticket for each one.

I doubt I'll go that route, but it's nice to know.
Damn 15 stands?????..wanna sell any???
 
#163 ·
What did I say, Landowners calling Game Warden/Police about someone on others property. Did caller have power of attorney or documents. No he wants them driving around his property to get a guy that very well might have permission, it is none of his damn business. As you can see in the report the police/GW do not even respond to the guy anymore, think it could be due to constant calls about a car driving past his precious lot. I have seen land owners that can not even enjoy their own land hunting as they are paranoid that someone is trespassing on the other side of someone else's land. It turns ugly with time. You know, you have seen the exact thing.
Look in the mirror, I hope that is not anyone here.
 
#165 · (Edited)
That is not correct. When a neighboring land owner is a good neighbor, you do things to help them. When they ask you to watch for trespassers, you watch for trespassers. When they ask you to call the law, you call the law. When they ask for help on a project, you help them. No hunting is allowed on this property by declaration of the owner. The owner does not live there, I could hunt it and no one would know. That's not the kind of person that I am. You should really know the facts before making incorrect assumptions.
 
#164 ·
I agree weekender. When we used to do deer drives, there was one spot where we knew if we hunted it twice that week, we would have a visit at least once from the warden. There was a busy body in a trailer across from where we parked at that would call every time. They didn't hunt, and they only owned 2 acres, none of which was anywhere close to where we hunted. They were the typical crazy horse people who thought that a hunter anywhere within a mile of their precious walking bags of dog food would shoot them.

It got to the point that we would all leave copies of our tags, licenses, and permission in a baggie under the wipers, so the warden didn't have to wait on us to get out of the woods to check us. Eventually he just quit responding after checking us for several years without ever finding a violation. That's what happens when you constantly cry wolf.
 
#173 ·
I guess technically we don't know, but we know... ya know? Lol

I'm normally not the type to get fired up about people crossing the line a little. However, these particular people are known poachers and these stands were well acrossed the line.

One was busted a couple years ago for killing 9 deer on opening morning of gun season without tagging a single one. It's hard to tell how much damage they do that isn't caught.
 
#174 ·
I would like to see an overhaul of the gamewarden system. You shouldn't have to have a 4 year degree to be a game warden. Make it in line with other LEO. Academy for a year and your a gamewarden. Save the 4 year stuff for the higher positions in the dept. This way gamewardens can be the entry level LEO that focuses more on enforcement of ODNR laws/regulations.
 
#179 ·
Almost all of them have a two year degree from Hocking college. Getting into an opening for one of the 88 country jobs is damn near impossible. I have two friends that are game wardens. It took them forever to get into a job. One works as a watercraft officer. Another as a sheriff. The rest of them gave up. Very difficult to get in.
 
#177 ·
Fastwater, I think you'd be surprised at how difficult it is to actually stick a trespassing charge without a confession. Trust me. It's awful.

Ostbucks98, you don't need a 4 year degree. You only need an associates, and I believe that you can even substitute that with experience. They're pretty picky in the selection process though. If you make it, you go to the academy where you get your assignment upon graduation.

The wardens aren't the issue. Trust me, they love to do their job. The administration is the issue. Nowhere near enough wardens to effectively do their jobs and way too many restrictions to do it effectively.

Years ago, they basically had no restrictions on hours or days. They could create their own schedule to be able to effectively enforce their County. Then they started making them account for the hours on computer with regulated overtime hours. Since their job didn't really have hours, but they had to show hours on computer, they basically just punched 8 hours a day into the system. That's what created the big fiasco of wardens being accused of hunting on the clock, when in reality it was just a flawed system. Now they have to take mandatory days off, and aren't allowed to work any overtime, or do anything outside of their posted hours. It's ridiculous. They can be mowing their grass on their day off and witness someone shoot a deer from the road, and not be able to do a damn thing.

They basically have to be in the right place at the right time. That's why they focus on stings and decoy deer so much. Whatever it takes to better their odds.
 
#178 ·
Fastwater, I think you'd be surprised at how difficult it is to actually stick a trespassing charge without a confession. Trust me. It's awful.

Ostbucks98, you don't need a 4 year degree. You only need an associates, and I believe that you can even substitute that with experience. They're pretty picky in the selection process though. If you make it, you go to the academy where you get your assignment upon graduation.

The wardens aren't the issue. Trust me, they love to do their job. The administration is the issue. Nowhere near enough wardens to effectively do their jobs and way too many restrictions to do it effectively.

Years ago, they basically had no restrictions on hours or days. They could create their own schedule to be able to effectively enforce their County. Then they started making them account for the hours on computer with regulated overtime hours. Since their job didn't really have hours, but they had to show hours on computer, they basically just punched 8 hours a day into the system. That's what created the big fiasco of wardens being accused of hunting on the clock, when in reality it was just a flawed system. Now they have to take mandatory days off, and aren't allowed to work any overtime, or do anything outside of their posted hours. It's ridiculous. They can be mowing their grass on their day off and witness someone shoot a deer from the road, and not be able to do a damn thing.

They basically have to be in the right place at the right time. That's why they focus on stings and decoy deer so much. Whatever it takes to better their odds.
Exactly right!
 
#181 ·
Almost all of them have a two year degree from Hocking college. Getting into an opening for one of the 88 country jobs is damn near impossible. I have two friends that are game wardens. It took them forever to get into a job. One works as a watercraft officer. Another as a sheriff. The rest of them gave up. Very difficult to get in.
A sheriff or a GW? And in what country?:D
 
#183 ·
Right. You're just "at large" , which means you go wherever they need extra help at on any given day until you gain enough seniority to get one of the 88 counties.... provided one is open as a result of someone retiring, getting promoted, etc.
I forgot about that at large status. Many of them were place on the Maumee river during the run. They do it because they want to protect wildlife. Not for the money. Pretty much a thankless job unless your catching someone who truly deserves it. Plus during hunting season most everyone you run into has a weapon and a knife. Definitely not a job that I would want.
 
#186 ·
Bingo!
But that means allocating more $ for that extra man power. remembering the 'pie' theory, and since there's only so much $ allocated for each dept. within the ODNR, that usually means taking $ away from one dept. and giving to another.
The lack of GW's, the obvious work load they have and knowing these GW's cannot possibly adequately respond to the publics demands has been my biggest bases for arguing some of my points such as deer herd size and how to control it here on OGF and elsewhere.
An example of what I'm saying is the thousands of ODNR allocated $'s that is spent every year hiring out of state sharpshooters or paying even local sharpshooters, whether that would be ODNR employees or other LE to go in certain areas( parks) and thin the herd.
While I understand there are some parks that this will have to be done due to housing, liability etc., there are many, many of these parks and properties throughout the state that they could actually make $ instead of spending it by having organized, structured and supervised bow only hunts. Lottery style hunts in which hunters paid an additional fee to hunt. ODNR could easily figure out what one of these hunts would cost as far as supervision goes and set Hunter fees accordingly to pay those expenses. Even if ODNR didn't make a penny and just enough to pay for the event, it sure would beat paying out the thousand they do paying the sharpshooters. Then the $ they saved could be allocated to more GW's.
Several years ago there was a group of us that presented this idea/plan to Mr. Tonkovich along with a statewide list of those areas that this could very easily be done. We also had a figure of about what ODNR had been spending on reducing deer numbers sharpshooting those areas every year. That figure was actually mind boggling.
Our idea for the most part was not only scoffed at but it was as if he wasn't even interested in hearing any ideas from us or anyone else. He had the attitude that his way was working great and he wasn't even remotely interested in hearing any suggestions that veered from his way.
Incidently, the idea/plan we presented was actually formed with much input by a couple retired GW's along with a State park Ranger(most likely now retired) .
And the sad reality is that two of those three people told us prior to presenting this the response we would get even though they worked in the field and thought this was a good idea/plan that could help an already financially struggling ODNR.

Again, remembering there is only X number of tax $'s ODNR gets from the state,
remembering that that total amount is usually not enough due to the fact that conservation falls way down on the list of 'importance' when it comes to the states budget and allocating tax $'s,
remembering that then each dept. within ODNR works within its own budget and is allocated a certain percentage of total,
you would think the powers to be within the ODNR would be a bit more receptive and at least listen to ideas when they are presented ways to possibly make their $'s stretch a bit further.

To be fair, there are a few very remote areas in which ODNR does have lottery hunts in which bows/guns can be used. But there sure are a lot of other areas in which this could be done. Even if they limit it to bow only.
 
#187 · (Edited)
With the plan to reduce our statewide deer numbers to the targeted amount (which is succeeding in record time) that's all we are going to need is seat belt cops.
IMO, most likely the very reason ODNR 'powers to be' aren't worried about more GW's. Why put on more per county when the goal is to reduce the deer herd to the point they really don't need any more. Understanding there are more duties to a GW's job than just deer season, deer season is obviously their busiest time, why put on more GW's per county only to have to lay them off or transfer them into other jobs later on.
 
#188 ·
You could do away with every stupid deer in the state and we would still have more work than the current amount of wardens could effectively handle.

I'd also be interested in seeing what the state spends in sharpshooting. I was under the impression that the majority of those sharp shooters are funded by local municipalities if private, or done by public employees (ODNR, USFWS) anyway.

I've talked to a few sharpshooters. They hated their jobs. Each and everything they did had to be documented. The local deer lovers did everything from bang pots and pans, to slash tires, to physical threats. They had go be escorted by law enforcement everywhere. They were only allowed head shots and we're constantly on edge watching for safety concerns and watching over their shoulder for the local crazies.
 
#192 ·
You could do away with every stupid deer in the state and we would still have more work than the current amount of wardens could effectively handle.

I'd also be interested in seeing what the state spends in sharpshooting. I was under the impression that the majority of those sharp shooters are funded by local municipalities if private, or done by public employees (ODNR, USFWS) anyway.
Actually much of the sharpshooting is done by state employees including some LE.
But there's a cost for paying those sharpshooters regardless. Many of these sharpshooters are not ODNR employees. But yet they are paid out of ODNR budget for their services. Also, if these sharpshooters are ODNR employees, they are usually being paid overtime since they shoot at night and most likely there regular work time is during the day. Again, money out of the overall ODNR budget. And yes, there have been instances in which ODNR paid private companies to come in and do the killing. In those instances the only state funded wildlife, ODNR people there were those doing the recording of deer killed and those collecting the deer.

I don't have my notes anymore that we put together for the meeting that included figures. I may be able to get ahold of a few of the guys that were involved to see if they still have any of that data. If I can...I'll post it.

One thing to remember is that these exspenses are not one time expenses. They are exspenses that the state has every year.
So if you can trim those exspenses...and in the process, use hunters that would pay to do the task rather then having to pay to get the same task done...all the while freeing up some very needed $ for other areas, why not do it. Or at least take the time to listen to suggestions.
Mr. Tonkovich once made the statement similar to ' if I keep half the hunters mad and half the farmers mad, I'm doing my job'. With his attitude and unwillingness in the meeting to even listen to the whole idea/plan, let alone give it some thought, IMO, he takes pride in that saying. He sure pissed a lot of people off that day by blowing everyone off. What was supposed to be a public meeting in which people could engage in what's going on and have comments ended up being nothing but a meeting in which he spoke and said what was going on and that's it.
 
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