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Ceasars Creek Dam Question

3K views 14 replies 8 participants last post by  grubtrail 
#1 ·
I asked Dross about how deep the drain hole was in Ceasars Creek, in another thread since i had another question i made a new post instead of high jacking the other thread.
If i understood Dross correctly he was saying the drain tunnel in Ceasars is at the bottom of the dam putting it some where around 100' deep.( Dross if im miss understanding you please correct me) Now from what ive read about Thermo Cline in lakes fish dont live below the Thermo Cline level when there is one because there isnt enough oxygen in the water. Which i could also be wrong about my understanding of the Thermo Cline (If i am someone please explain it so that it makes more sence) So my question is if fish dont go below the Thermo Cline when its present how are the fish getting into the spillway side of the Dam?
 
#2 ·
Bodies of water are made up of layers, determined by temperature. The top surface layer is called the epipelagic zone, and is sometimes referred to as the "ocean skin" or "sunlight zone." This layer interacts with the wind and waves, which mixes the water and distributes the warmth. At the base of this layer is the thermocline. A thermocline is the transition layer between the warmer mixed water at the surface and the cooler deep water below. It is relatively easy to tell when you have reached the thermocline in a body of water because there is a sudden change in temperature. In the thermocline, the temperature decreases rapidly from the mixed layer temperature to the much colder deep water temperature.

In the ocean, the depth and strength of the thermocline vary from season to season and year to year. It is semi-permanent in the tropics, variable in temperate regions (often deepest during the summer), and shallow to nonexistent in the polar regions, where the water column is cold from the surface to the bottom.

Thermoclines also play a role in meteorological forecasting. For example, hurricane forecasters must consider not just the temperature of the ocean's skin (the sea surface temperature), but also the depth of warm water above the thermocline. Water vapor evaporated from the ocean is a hurricane's primary fuel. The depth of the thermocline is the measure of the size of the "fuel tank" and helps to predict the risk of hurricane formation.



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#4 ·


If you look at this pic, the out flow tunnel is at the same level as the gate is on the other side of the dam. Notice the tower is straight opposite the out flow tunnel. At the tower, from water level, it's over a 100ft down to the gate. Like I said, looking down from inside the fenced-in area at the top of the tower, it was a REALLY LONG WAY DOWN, haha.
 
#7 ·
If you look at this pic, the out flow tunnel is at the same level as the gate is on the other side of the dam. Notice the tower is straight opposite the out flow tunnel. At the tower, from water level, it's over a 100ft down to the gate. Like I said, looking down from inside the fenced-in area at the top of the tower, it was a REALLY LONG WAY DOWN, haha.
I was going to ask how you saw the gate if it was 100' underwater but now I get it. Is this fenced-in area cordoned-off from normal folk?
 
#6 ·
I have a pretty good knowledge about this as in years past the Ohio Council of Trout Unlimited did a lot of research for the ODNR as we were approaching them with an idea of using the CC Tailwater as a "Cool" water fishery like Brookville Lake is. In that process I spoke with the ACoE guy who designed both Brookville and Ceasers Creek, both dams are identical in style and both dams have Hypo limnetic releases which means, gates at 3 levels, if I remember right, 1 at 20 Ft, 1 at 40 ft and 1 at 60 with an emergency bottom drain. so the dam at CC is almost always pulling from the surface ( 20 ft gate) so that way the warm water from the surface of the lake is the same temp as the lake and also has the most amount of oxygen. Now at Brookville where they are trying to release colder water, they have to mix water from the top surface gate for the oxygen, while also adding a certain amount of water from deeper depths to acquire the cold water, problem is if you pull cold water from 60 ft, there is ZERO oxygen so they may get 40 percent of the tailwater from the surface where there is a lot of oxygen but also get 60 percent from the deeper water and as it all falls it mixes and is a large reason why you actually get deeper water species in the tail water like walleyes and stripers at Brookville but not at CC. Just a theory there. In contrast if you go to the large Tennessee tail waters down south, ( Clinch, Holsten, Watauga) always releasing cold water causes a real problem with getting enough oxygen in the water to support trout, this is why they had added expensive baffles to the falling chambers there to add oxygen and also they use a lot of smart tricks like weir dams, added riffles near the out flows and always pulsing the water every couple of hours. Pretty neat stuff, in low flows the first light of the day is the lowest oxygen levels and many fish are surface feeding at that time as much gulping air as they are feeding.


PS the ODNR said the idea would never fly as there were too many entities involved to coerce into accepting the idea and since LMR is a national Scenic river with a large diverse assortment of warm water species, and by adding the cool water species would directly effect the whole ecosystem.

I hope this helps
Salmonid
 
#8 ·
That makes sense. If its 60%, but there sure is no Ox. at 100' plus the pressure would be intense. And I've marked readings deeper than 100' (CC is Ohio's deepest) You can't get right to the concrete (obviously) as they have the cable & floats stretched there. Isn't EastFork's dam (Harsha) a mirror of Caesar? As flood control lakes they are similar in other ways. the Corps will tell you they could care less about fishing, its all about containment. Which I pray is hardened enough to thwart any terrorist elements. Its as if they are continually coming up with new ways to strike. The grid is what I'm most concerned about, but that's for another post.
 
#12 ·
You'll still have better chances in the main lake body tho. Use lures as if you were targeting bass in the stick-ups. (you might wanna have a change of underwear with ya) Or large black Bucktails in open water with the Figure 8 method. Its no longer the fish of ten thousand casts. 50"s will be coming out of there plentiful. They haven't caught on as well at eastfork, which is odd. The fishery did start a bit behind. Learned their lesson about advanced fingerlings the hard way
 
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#15 ·
Have to say when we were there before the lake was filled, we never noticed or can't remember any other openings in the wall of the tower above the one at the base. So the upper gatry




tes, when open, the water has to run to the bottom and out the tunnel to the tail water side, interesting. Makes sense to me. At Kentucky Lake, I've seen my cousin's fish behind the dam. In an aluminum boat, they would pull right on top of "boils" right behind the dam and drop 1/2 pound weighted hooks with shad guts wrapped and tied on it. Their poles were no poles, just a handle, a ocean style reel with 100+lb line and a eyelet, no pole. they would literally hook the "pole on the front end of the boat. One cousin would be at the motor at the back of the boat keeping the front of the boat as near to the middle of the boil as possible and the other one would be at the front. You would see both get excited as the front of the boat would bob up and down and slowly move off the boil, sometimes very funny to watch it happen. After a while of reeling and waiting, you would see a giant fish head appear at the front of the boat. I saw a pic of a 100 pounder that they had caught (now this was all done in the 60's). Saw other pics of several very big cats, nailed to a tree with what looked like railway spikes, in the process of being skinned, etc. Don't know if that's still allowed today or not, but I know shagging is still allowed.
 
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