This year, my wife and I, started a 100% organic garden. It's been O.K. so far but we are frusterated with the growth compared to conventional gardening.
Is anyone else going organic?
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I guess you'd have to define organic...I started mine from store bought seed and bagged potting mix, and am using purchased bulk topsoil and compost. I am not using pesticides or fertilizers. My plants are doing well, other than damage from deer and slugs.
The lack of a true definition causes major confusion with most people. Very few actually know what organic means when it comes to food. Growing a truly organic garden doesn’t mean it has to lack growth or production, but if that’s what you’re seeing it likely has to do with your soil. Have you typically fertilized with commercial fertilizer? If so, lack of soil nutrients is probably your problem. pH is another likely problem, because with poor pH, all the nutrients in the world won’t help. Adding lime is not something that would cause your garden to no longer be organic, as it’s a natural product. Composted manure would be a huge help for nutrients, but unless you get it from a certified organic farm, you will no longer have an organic garden. For most people, this really isn’t important.
The biggest cause of frustration for me is bugs. I simply couldn’t have a garden without some sort of insecticide. My cabbage, broccoli, and cauliflower plants look like skeletons right now because of the worms. I finally sprayed them last night. Beans wouldn’t make it either because of the beetles. When the sweet corn is ripening, I need to dust the silk with Sevin or every ear will be eaten by worms. I honestly don’t know how anyone can grow a garden without insecticide. I’ve tried, and it simply doesn’t work here.
We bought "organic" seeds and started our gardens indoors, and i think my problem has something to do with shallow roots because the plants were in such a small container indoors.
Were going to attempt no gmo plants/seeds, along without any conventional fertilizers, and without insecticides.
The soil we are using was an expensive organic manure compost blend. All the manure came from grain fed cows which were also hormone and antibiotic free.
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Unless the grain being fed and the pasture the cattle were on were certified organic, the manure isn't organic. And that's highly unlikely, though possible. Antibiotics to not eliminate a cow from falling under the organic label. One of my biggest pet peeves is the mislabeling of products as "organic", when they are not. I would vennture a guess that half of the products out there labeled organic aren't.
Starting plants in pots isn't the issue, because most plants are started indoors. Did you mix any regular soil in when you planted, or just the compost? Sometimes the compost is too rich, and I get better growth with a mixture. Regular soil also holds moisture better. I also place compost around each plant, and that seems to help hold moisture and prevents the dirt around the plant from crusting up.
Unless the grain being fed and the pasture the cattle were on were certified organic, the manure isn't organic. And that's highly unlikely, though possible. Antibiotics to not eliminate a cow from falling under the organic label. One of my biggest pet peeves is the mislabeling of products as "organic", when they are not. I would vennture a guess that half of the products out there labeled organic aren't.
Starting plants in pots isn't the issue, because most plants are started indoors. Did you mix any regular soil in when you planted, or just the compost? Sometimes the compost is too rich, and I get better growth with a mixture. Regular soil also holds moisture better. I also place compost around each plant, and that seems to help hold moisture and prevents the dirt around the plant from crusting up.
I had a bad experience with transplants this year. I start my seeds in small dishes and transplant into six packs when they get their first true leaf. This year I used Scott's moisture control soil and they did just terrible when I transplanted into six packs. The soil was too heavy, stayed wet too long and got really compacted stunting growth and not developing a good root system. Soilless mix only for me from now on! I was able to salvage enough for my garden though.
I agree, I’ll be using soilless mixes for starting from now on as well. I’ve used the Miracle Grow mixes, regular dirt, and composted manure to start plants. None work as well as soilless potting mix. The manure was downright poor, I probably only got 50% germination. I also tried those pre-formed little pellets that come in the plastic tray with a clear top. Germination was just as bad as the manure.
This is really thread is really interesting to me, as I strongly believe in trying to minimize chemical exposure. I used to work in toxicology, and trust me, the stuff they say is *harmless* is really just less harmful under the right conditions.
This year is the first year of true gardening for the husband and I. We bought a house with 5 acres last year but just didn't have the time to plant. This year, we bought 8 cu yards of an organic compost topsoil. Our plant have done awesome, despite having lost about 30-40% of our seedlings to transplant shock. The direct seeded stuff came up awesome, about 95-100%. This year is really tough because of the lack of rain, we have had to drag a hose out and water several times and we are still seeing the yellowing of leaves on our corn and pumpkins.
Do you have a compost pile? As someone else mentioned this is a great way to boost your soil. Our soil that we bought has issues holding water, so I am thinking that in the fall I will be mixing in some of our native clay soil to help it out. The other issue I've had has been the bugs. We had caterpillars attack the lettuce, tent caterpillars in our orchard, and caterpillars in the corn. However, best 'organic' product I can recommend is Neem oil. Couple of sprays took care of all the caterpillars. We didn't lose too much except in the case of the lettuce, and there was really enough to go around : )
In terms of weed control you should try straight white vinegar. You don't want the weeds to compete for your soil nutrients, so we like to apply vinegar to the perimeters of our beds. I will never use Round-Up for many reasons, but my father in law does, and I don't hesitate to say that the straight vinegar works just as well or better on fence lines, driveways, and garden edges. Raised beds don't require this of course, but definitely for the non-raised as the weeds don't waste time in creeping in.
In terms of the non-gmo seed...GMO seed will always have higher outputs as that is all it was really bred for. Well, that and disease resistance. So if you want high nutrients out of the veggies you grow, and superior flavor, I'd stick with the organic or heirloom varieties.
For organic fertilizers, there are several interesting ones out there. I found a bat guano one, but didn't buy as we have chickens to provide nitrogen. I did buy a marine based fertilizer (I imagine this is all fish by-products), for the house plants. They seem to like it. Finally, I use worm tea from my worm composter. You have to dilute 1:8 or you'll burn the roots but it's worked great for the flower beds this year.
Hope this helps! Would love to see some pictures of what you've got so far!
The lack of a true definition causes major confusion with most people. Very few actually know what organic means when it comes to food. Growing a truly organic garden doesn’t mean it has to lack growth or production, but if that’s what you’re seeing it likely has to do with your soil. Have you typically fertilized with commercial fertilizer? If so, lack of soil nutrients is probably your problem. pH is another likely problem, because with poor pH, all the nutrients in the world won’t help. Adding lime is not something that would cause your garden to no longer be organic, as it’s a natural product. Composted manure would be a huge help for nutrients, but unless you get it from a certified organic farm, you will no longer have an organic garden. For most people, this really isn’t important.
The biggest cause of frustration for me is bugs. I simply couldn’t have a garden without some sort of insecticide. My cabbage, broccoli, and cauliflower plants look like skeletons right now because of the worms. I finally sprayed them last night. Beans wouldn’t make it either because of the beetles. When the sweet corn is ripening, I need to dust the silk with Sevin or every ear will be eaten by worms. I honestly don’t know how anyone can grow a garden without insecticide. I’ve tried, and it simply doesn’t work here.
Agreed! I tried the truely "all out" ORGANIC garden and I was frustrated not to be able to stop insects or certain diseases. IT SEEMS THAT THEY ALSO HAVE MUTATED AND DEVELOPED RESISTANCE TO CERTAIN COMPOUNDS!
Even with proper soil, fertilization, watering, etc...bugs were the main issue that natural or organic measures could not stop WITHOUT SPENDING BIG $$ ON ESSENTIAL OILS!
Now I use Natural and Organic fertilizers (Espoma), Compost, and I use Ortho Slug Killer (natural), along with Sevin or Malathilon for aphids/mites/etc, and Ortho disease spray for fruits and veggies. I also mulch (4") my entire garden after everything is up (2 truck loads of fine hardwood @ $20 each) to save on watering.
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Last edited by Intimidator; 08-24-2012 at 01:27 PM.
I am going to try some companion planting this year certain plants are said to enhance the flavors of others,like planting Garlic next to Strawberries. I know that marigolds kept a lot bugs off of my tomatoes last year ,but the weather wasn't helping and working seven to ten day runs I was too tired to do much of anything but rest.
I am going to try some companion planting this year certain plants are said to enhance the flavors of others,like planting Garlic next to Strawberries. I know that marigolds kept a lot bugs off of my tomatoes last year ,but the weather wasn't helping and working seven to ten day runs I was too tired to do much of anything but rest.
Yes been doing companion planting for a few years. Not sure if it changes taste. But some plants use a lot of one mineral and other use different ones. So by companion planting you basically plant one that uses different nutritions. So they grow and bear better.
We have been moving toward total Organic more each year. Will use only home made organic fertilizers and pesticides this year. We have been saving our own seeds from the best fruits and vegetables and i get not only a better success rate but also better produce and plants. Plus 1-5 dollars for 10-30 seeds are ridiculous.
Well be seeing what happens. But been trying to be a homesteader. Its fun,cheap and productive. I buy mostly meat,paper etc. But thinking the meat will end soon or most of it. And the wife makes all our soaps,detergents,conditioners, creams. Its actually better products with out the chemicals.
I love that line. No chemicals!!! What are they? All water? Water is a chemical too by the way....
Well thats pretty sharp. Lol! Their are lots of chemicals i want no part of. Most the ingrediants are all natural baking soda, borax that sort of thing.
I saw something about making a "tea" with worm castings and bat guano. Basically you put it in a bucket with water and an air stone with a pump attached, to percolate over night. Its supposed to make awesome juice for your plants. This guy on National Geographic channel was growing world record sized veggies in Alaska of all places doing this. ( 6 foot tall Parsley bush, beach ball sized turnips... )
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Talk Organic and you get nutcases coming out of the walls. Water and air are elements not chemicals if you remember 5 grade science.
Nitrates and nitrites are to more many with out knowledge talk about being so harmful. The nitrates are used in all smoked meats today. Interesting thing is their are more in veggys today. Ye nitrate are in about all foods and a useful chemical in our body.
Now can you say the same on preservatives, pesticides ,fertilizers and such? No way! All are proven to cause damage and disease to the human body. So we use compost and such as fertilizers. Nitrates as a preservative(blocks botulism) We use natures resources for pesticides. Is their chemicals involved? Yes but safe natural ones.
Im going to raise my chickens and eggs the same way. Does that mean i wont give meds? Well no. If i have to save them with them surely i'll give an antibodies. But nothing to prevent what might never occur.Seems like some today want to poke at others because of their own insecurity's. I am growing organic to my way of feeling. I have no interest in growing to specs today. As I feel for the most part that's just to raise prices.
So if any one has more ways to help me succeed at this fine Id love some info and help. If not thats ok too!
Water and air are not elements. Elements are oxygen, carbon, nitrogen, etc. water is a compound, air is a mix of elements and compounds.
But we all know what we are talking about, which is growing food that is the most healthy for us with minimal impact to the environment. I've got a bunch of crappie carcasses tilled into my plot.
This year, my wife and I, started a 100% organic garden. It's been O.K. so far but we are frusterated with the growth compared to conventional gardening.
Is anyone else going organic?
Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
Find a source of composted horse manure. I use 5 year old stuff, from the horse farm down the road. It is odor free. Fresh H manure is too strong and burns the plants.
Or try the Cleveland Zoo. Manure is free, they can tell you about use of the different types. I hear Elephant and Rino is good. Your container, trailer, or truck for the free manure.
My tomato plants are in shade most of the day and they get almost 15 foot tall. Species does not seem to matter because I have many including the usual for Ohio. Beefsteak, plum, and cherry. I'll take a picture of the plants next season and add it to this thread.
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Organic Garden
Organic Garden
Water is a chemical too by the way....
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