Well I went out catfishing Saturday night and had both mono and braid setups in the water. We had six line and 4 were braid to the weight and swivel and then about a 30" mono leader. The mono rigs were about the same size leader but all was mono. We didn't have a ton of action. We only caught 6 fish and that was the only runs we had so we went 6 for 6. I won't say the I would not have caught them with all braid or some other setups but this setup worked for me. I was using 2/0 Kahle hooks on most and I think we got one fish on an octopus (not sure of size on that one). All fish were hooked perfectly in the mouth. I was fishing with baitcaster reels on clicker. We had no hard hookset. We waited for them to load up the pressure on the line and then raised the rod to create solid pressure. What we were doing was certainly working for the fish we were encountering that night. Who knows? Maybe the next trip out we will lose more fish than we catch. It happens that way at times.
I am not a fan of the braid setups myself for catfishing but 4 of the rods that I was using were my trolling setups which double up rather nicely for that purpose. I prefer to have a bit of stretch in between me and the fish when they have some strong fight. That is why I still used the mono leader. I would have even gone flourocarbon but I didn't have it with me. I am not a regular catfisherman so I cannot justify investing in completely separate setups. Obviously the braids work and Robby has the pictures to prove it.
Kahle hooks will be my next test. Think the gamas octopus hooks from Wally world are junk. The point of the hook doesn't even bend inward like other gamas or eagle claws do. I'm just tired of seeing a heavy action poll Damm near hit the ground off of the hit of the fish just to reel in nothing. I'm lovin cat fishing and gonna perteque my setup for maximum success. I don't sit on the shore for hours for nothing
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where the fish aren't
Last edited by jjshbetz11; 06-18-2012 at 06:35 PM.
Gama Octopus hooks and Gama Octopus Circles are different types of hooks. Only the circles have the inward point on them. I also use mono as a leader and braid for mainline. 25# Big Game for leader and 50 & 65 # Spiderwire for mainline. So if I get snagged I lose a hook, instead of hook, swivel, sinker, beads, and float. I can put more line on with braid as its only = to 17# dia mono, so if I lose some line I still have plenty on the reel. Just my 2 cents. Golive
I read a short link online describing the difference between the circle and the Kahle hooks and it suggested that Kahle hooks tend to hook fish deeper than circles due to the wider gap. The fish I caught the other night all but one had the top of the hook outside the mouth. The other fish had the hook completely in the mouth but I was still able to turn the hook over in the corner of its jaw to remove it from the back of the jaw. None we what I would call deep-hooked. I think the concept between using both are the same in that you don't set the hook hard on them. They do most of that work themselves.
I read a short link online describing the difference between the circle and the Kahle hooks and it suggested that Kahle hooks tend to hook fish deeper than circles due to the wider gap. The fish I caught the other night all but one had the top of the hook outside the mouth. The other fish had the hook completely in the mouth but I was still able to turn the hook over in the corner of its jaw to remove it from the back of the jaw. None we what I would call deep-hooked. I think the concept between using both are the same in that you don't set the hook hard on them. They do most of that work themselves.
I have yet to have a Kahle Hook a fish deep. I have been using them for 15 years.
The other strange thing is just about ever place you look on the web there is all these articles about how bad kahle hooks are,,, and how they gut hook fish.... That is a Load of Crap ! I Honestly think all these articles are paid for to get people to buy circle hooks !
A Kahle works pretty much just like a circle, But you can also set the hook aggressively. Now keep in mind that not all Kahles are Offset.. And if you like to set the hook aggressively, you want a offset Kahle. One year I bought a huge lot of Kahles for the season and I never paid attention that they weren't offset. Needless to say I missed some fish before i figured out what was going on..
I personally tried Circles for one year, and they weren't for me.
The reason being is that at times I fish from a boat and from shore, and I also catch a lot of flatheads during the day.
In my experience a circle is worthless if you are in a situation where the fish doesn't run, because you will just pull the hook right out. Lots of times on the boat , I'm dropping the bait right on a fish sitting in cover and they will just suck up the bait and sit there in the cover. A Kahle lets me set the hook on those fish, and if the fish runs, it gets them just like a circle, always in the corner of the mouth.
The Most important thing is to match hook size with bait size while having the bait hooked right,, if you don't do that with any hook you will miss fish.
I personally use Kahles from 7/0 to 10/0 depending on the bait size.
Now, Team Catfish has some Double Action catfish circle hooks,, and they work pretty well,,However Pricey.
You can set the hook with these by sweeping the rod,, but you don't want to use a aggressive hook set.
As far as I know a Kahle is the only hook that gives me the best of both worlds.
The reason the circle hooks catch fish in the mouth
is that the inside point does not dig in until the eye
is past the edge of the mouth. The offset eye turns
the point into the fish. You must have tension on the
line at that point.
This is why a steady pull "sets" a circle hook.
A kahle hook is wide gapped so that a smaller hook size can
accomodate a larger bait. Some of the newer larger sized
Kahles have outsized wire for those who prefer showing of
tackle to catching fish.
Kahles do not have inside facing points so catmen can decide
when to set the hook. Baits almost always start out in a flatheads
stomach after they inhale a bait.
If you choose a kahle hook with an offset eye they will increase
your hookups in the corner of flatheads mouth.
My advice is to fish circles with reels locked in in current areas
and use kahles in non current areas.
Have yet to try my kahle hooks, I don't want the fish to swallow the hook, would rather return the fish to the water unharmed. Hopefullyake it out tomorrow night.
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Here is a tip that a Old friend of mine told be back when I first got into flathead fishing.
Most anglers don't really know this but Flatheads have two sets of PADS or teeth (not counting the ones on their lips). One set is on the roof of their mouth and one on the bottom. They are located right in front of their stomach.
When a Flathead engulfs the bait,, they suck the bait to the back of their throats, then clamp down with these pads. Their jaws are still wide open, but these pads in the back are holding the bait tightly,trying to kill it.
A Lot of people miss fish because they are setting the hook early,thinking the mouth is closed when its not.
If you just let the rod load up far enough, the bait fish will start to slip from those pads.
When the Flathead feels this, they will clamp their mouth closed, and give a head shake to finally kill the bait fish and prevent its escape.
So what I do is this,,When the clicker goes off, I engage the reel and wait. I let the fish load-up on the rod. It will most of the time be bent over . At the last moment, when I find myself thinking I gotta set the hook or they are going to feel me and spit it out,,, I wait a second or two longer. and when I will feel the flat shake their head,,,, Bam ! I set it.
I also try to never let a fish run more than a foot or two if I'm near the rod.
That is something that really helped me when I learned it.
Most anglers don't really know this but Flatheads have two sets of PADS or teeth (not counting the ones on their lips). One set is on the roof of their mouth and one on the bottom. They are located right in front of their stomach.
When a Flathead engulfs the bait,, they suck the bait to the back of their throats, then clamp down with these pads. Their jaws are still wide open, but these pads in the back are holding the bait tightly,trying to kill it.
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Your friend was very much mistaken. That is not true.
Your friend was very much mistaken. That is not true.
To each their own thoughts , I learned it from a fishery biologist that did Flathead research for the government and a host of different states,He also radio tagged flatheads for 12 yrs, But I won't argue about it , Any one that claims they know all about anything is a Idiot, So I will of course take your wisdom on the matter. What don't you agree with ?
I will add that he said the pads are on fish 20 pds and up.
No one is arguing, no need to get upset. Perhaps our terminology isn't matching. There’s not a set of teeth back toward the throat. Large flatheads engulf the bait, and occasionally one will be hooked in the stomach. With any fish over 15-20 pounds, it’s simple to reach down in and remove the hook gently. I’ve been elbow deep more times than I can remember, and the only tooth pads are the lips. The throat does cinch up, but the texture is nothing like the lips. Whether or not a flathead leaves it’s mouth open after eating or not, I can’t say. I doubt it’s any sort of hard and fast rule, as there aren’t many of those when it comes to wildlife habits.
I re-read it a couple times, and I think it is our terminology that doesn’t match. There are rough patches back there, I just never thought of them as tooth patches. I’m still not convinced that a flathead leaves his mouth open. In order to expel the water, it has to close.
I have always called them crusher plates, they are just like a flathead jaw, they are very hard and have sandpaper like teeth, its hard to believe a flathead ever opens his mouth after engulfing a bait, but i cannot verify that because i have never seen a flathead take a bait with my own eyes.
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I have always called them crusher plates, they are just like a flathead jaw, they are very hard and have sandpaper like teeth, its hard to believe a flathead ever opens his mouth after engulfing a bait, but i cannot verify that because i have never seen a flathead take a bait with my own eyes.
That's a better description of them "Crusher plates !
I have seen some big ones eat in Tanks at a couple of different places and when they suck the bait in it's kind of closed for a second and then half open for a bit once they get the bait in those Back pads.
@M.Magis I wasn't mad in any way My comment about only idiots know everything was Aimed at myself,, Meaning, I don't and Never will claim to know everything about anything. I'm a musician by profession and that has taught me that No Matter how good you get at something, you can never know everything about something, especially with skill oriented things.
Some newcomers to flathead fishing call the sand paper texture on a flathead's jaws teeth,, They are by No means teeth. I was in general describing the texture on their jaws as similar with the texture on the "Crusher Plates" LOL
I'm going to call them "Crusher Plates " from now on, because that is a better way to describe them.. Thanks Ducky LOL !
We see the crusher plates in flathead but not sure of
their function.
Normally flathead try to purge during the fight. But every
now and then I will recover a bait from a flatheads stomach.
When I do the only damage to the baits that I find is from
my hooks.
Someone posted about striking quickly to prevent hooking
in the stomach. I say that mature flathead flare their gills
and baits go directly into the stomach. When we set the hooks
they pull out of the bait and often catch in the jaws or lips as
the hook eye clears the mouth.
As Magis suggested some gut hooking is inevitable but we
can reach into stomachs an gently remove the hooks. With
the BK hooks the penetration was so good that we often
drove them through the large lip bones and had to cut barbs
off to remove them.
Those crusher plates sure can do a number on your wrist trying to get a hook out of the stomach . I will try to find a picture from a couple years ago. A 30 lber made it look like i was trying to kill myself
Just a thought as it happened to me. Check your guides by running a q-tip over and through them , maybe your previous braid usage put a small groove in one of the guides. That will cause mono to get cut off. I had a rod I only used braid on, but had a spare spool of mono, well the one time I switched spools my mono cut/broke on every fish, the culprit was the top eyelet had a small groove. Worth checking out.
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Have you ever missed a bite from a flathead, there is always lip mark pressed into the fish that is if its not smashed in half. You can always tell if it was a run from a catfish or a gar.
__________________ Single White Male -looking for wild healthy mature Flathead. No smaller than 15 pounds but the bigger the better. Do not need to cook or clean, just needs enjoy munching on creek chubs and long fights on the beach. Please meet me tonight at the old scioto mill dam in Piketon. Ill be waiting
Loosing cats due to mono?
My comment about only idiots know everything was Aimed at myself,, Meaning, I don't and Never will claim to know everything about anything. I'm a musician by profession and that has taught me that No Matter how good you get at something, you can never know everything about something, especially with skill oriented things.
. I will try to find a picture from a couple years ago. A 30 lber made it look like i was trying to kill myself
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