Hard Cider

[Whiskerhunter]

Originally Posted by yonderfishin

"Distillation" is turning beer or wine into liquor and is illegal , which is stupid. If you can make alcohol legally then why cant you concentrate it ? But whatever, law is law. "Fermentation" is adding yeast to anything containing starch or sugar and making beer or wine which is legal ,.....amount dosent really matter ( even though its on the books as law it can only be a certain amount) because nobody is going door to door searching your home to see how much you have made

By this logic, Jack Daniels distillery is operating illegally... Please READ my posts before you comment. I clearly stated that there were ATF hoops to jump through. Their "licensing" procedures are nothing more in essence than making sure you pay taxes on your booze. The amount you intend to produce certainly does matter as the ATF provides several levels of said "licensing". I have dealt with this in the state of Oregon with some friends who were starting a small distillery. Perhaps I wasn't quite clear in my thought to text translation... wouldn't be the first time.

However, with all that said... on a personal usage level, there is little to no enforcement of these statues, and home distilling is very much a growing hobby. I wouldn't be surprised to see the ATF re-evaluate the legislation in the not-to-distant future to allow a couple gallons per annum per household member.

[seethe303]

Originally Posted by Whiskerhunter

Distillation is perfectly legal for personal consumption last I looked.

could you cite your sources please?

recently there was a bill in congress to legalize home distilling, however it did not pass.

[bonsai87]

If you want to Distill in ohio..you must obtain the correct permits ( just like carrying a concealed weapon)..and to distill in ohio you need city state and federal permits ...otherwise without those permits any type of distillation is illegal!!!!....making beer and wine is NOT distillation and is legal...Distillation : the process of purifying a liquid by successive evaporation and condensation....aka making a mash.. boiling it and collecting the condensation...which would be a more purified form of alcohol...liquor...and again in the state of ohio this IS illegal UNLESS you have the proper permits!!..but fermenting is not illegal ( making beer..wine..hard cider)

[yonderfishin]

Originally Posted by Whiskerhunter

By this logic, Jack Daniels distillery is operating illegally... Please READ my posts before you comment. I clearly stated that there were ATF hoops to jump through. Their "licensing" procedures are nothing more in essence than making sure you pay taxes on your booze. The amount you intend to produce certainly does matter as the ATF provides several levels of said "licensing". I have dealt with this in the state of Oregon with some friends who were starting a small distillery. Perhaps I wasn't quite clear in my thought to text translation... wouldn't be the first time.

However, with all that said... on a personal usage level, there is little to no enforcement of these statues, and home distilling is very much a growing hobby. I wouldn't be surprised to see the ATF re-evaluate the legislation in the not-to-distant future to allow a couple gallons per annum per household member.

Basically you and I are saying the exact same thing. Distilling is legal after you have obtained the permits, satisfied federal and local laws, and be sure all taxes are paid if the stuff is sold......in other words for the average joe looking to turn his beer into moonshine in his kitchen it is illegal because nobody is gonna jump thru those hoops for an experiment or hobby. But I would not be scared at all of distilling small amounts in my garage or kitchen.

[Whiskerhunter]

Yeah, I prolly phrased that poorly yonder. The upshot is that it is legal, but you have to have the permits/licensing from the ATF, which as I mentioned before are little more than making sure you pay Uncle Sam for your booze whether he earned it or not. And as a matter of practicality, the ATF isn't gonna come after you for making a couple gallons in your garage unless you are selling it.

The laws against home-distilling are a throwback from the prohibition era and really need to be re-examined and provide for Joe average who wants to produce a couple gallons at home. I vaguely remember that bill coming up to de-criminalize home-distilling, and it was defeated for a good reason, though I forget what the heck the reason was. I think it might have been the lack of provision for limiting the amount, sales, etc. but I am not positive.

[fishintechnician]

Question:
Does anyone know if i could make a "hard cider" out of other juices? I would assume that as long as they ddin't have preservative i could do it. Was thinking like grape wild berrie mix. Was gonna do a batch of mead but that gets kind of costly ( need over a gallon of honey) any input would be appreciated

[yonderfishin]

You can ferment anything with a lot of sugar or startch in it as long as it has no added preservatives , ascorbic acid ( vitamin C ) added is fine and wont hurt the yeast. So thats quite a large list of things to try out.

[Mushijobah]

Just put two jugs of all natural Apple Juice on the shelf lastnight after reading this....an experiment . I used regular bakers yeast. If it actually works I will get more serious about this. Nothing like brewing your own brew!

[fishintechnician]

mushi-baking yeast should work did you use an airlock at all? If not the expanding gases may cause you problems, or if not sealed will turn to vinegar.

I was thinking of oj for a mixing base (other drinks) but after reading other reviews decided against it. Going tommorow to get the rest of my supplies and get the batches going will keep all posted

[Mushijobah]

Yes, I jerry-rigged an airlock for each. For one jug, I took a hot sewing needle and poked a hole in the top of the cap. This hole is tiny, and hopefully won't let anything in. For the other, I put plastic wrap over the top with a rubber band around it. While it seems tight, there is enough of an unseen gap to release the gases. Both are bubbling like crazy and smelling up my basement slightly . We will see if it works!

[seethe303]

Originally Posted by Mushijobah

and smelling up my basement slightly .

for some reason apple juice smells like farts when it is fermenting.

beer smells really good though when it is fermenting. and being brewed. and consumed...

[5Cent]

All this talk.....I'm out to get a few gallons of unpasturized apple cider tonight....keep this thread going. I'm curious to see how everyone's turns out.

I'm going to try one gallon with just yeast, then the other with some more sugar and cinnamon. I can taste it already.....

[Mushijobah]

The gasses coming from mine smell goooood....how often can that be said? Hey experienced brewers....does a store bought airlock need to be bought? I poked a tiny hole in the cap on one of mine, and sealed the other with plastic wrap. It still lets a tiny amount of gas out.

[seethe303]

Originally Posted by Mushijobah

The gasses coming from mine smell goooood....how often can that be said? Hey experienced brewers....does a store bought airlock need to be bought? I poked a tiny hole in the cap on one of mine, and sealed the other with plastic wrap. It still lets a tiny amount of gas out.

probably not. hell, people brewed for thousands of years without todays methods of sanitation and high standards of equipment.

[fishintechnician]

I put up my first batch last night the recipie calls for a pound of sugar for every gallon of juice so i used 2 pounds white sugar, 1 pound brown sugar and 1 pound honey. Put in large stock pot and warmed (Not boiled) one gallon of apple juice. Added sugars and honey as well as some ground cinnamon and three cinnamon sticks stired until well disolved and then putt in 5 gal water jug with 3 more gallons of room temp juice and three more sticks of cinnamon as well as two table spoons of lemon juice (clarifier) let cool to room temp then add yeast stir for 1 min then cap it off. fo an air lock i drilled a small hole and inserted an air tube ran to a glass of water. Checked it this morning and it was bubbling like crazy! And my gasses smell really good too can't wait for it to be done.

Still tossing around the idea of making mead (honey beer) but i need 12-15 lbs of honey and a 3lb bottle was 9 bucks! I think it would be really good though, not sure if i wanna do that or try another juice mix i think if this all works out ok i might get into doing my own beer it is pretty fun not to mention easy

[yonderfishin]

Originally Posted by Mushijobah

The gasses coming from mine smell goooood....how often can that be said? Hey experienced brewers....does a store bought airlock need to be bought? I poked a tiny hole in the cap on one of mine, and sealed the other with plastic wrap. It still lets a tiny amount of gas out.

You dont need a store bought airlock , the jerry rigged versions work just as good. Just be sure to keep everything airtight so gasses will come out but air cant get in or it will get corrupted with other types of microrganisims and turn to vinegar. I use a hot glue gun but any type of glue substance will work, around the tube from the container to seal it tight. The whole idea of the airlock is to keep out air and make sure its a one way valve. After its done bubbling or atleast slowed quite a bit the cider will be done. After that you can drink it as it is or do a secondary fermentation in a different container if you want to finish it off and make it more clear , but its not necessary.

[yonderfishin]

I will be bottling my second batch today that I used come champagne yeast ( Lavlin EC-118 ) with , because its not really doing much. I sampled it today and it tastes like a really good apple wine with not much yeast taste at all and the alcohol content is really good and more than with the bread yeast. Most people recommend giving it a lot more time and then letting it age after bottling but that I will do after i experiment some more. I have another batch using bread yeast that is mostly water and 4 pounds of dark brown sugar with cinnimon and apple pie seasoning and one gallon of apple juice that really never took off the way the first batch did but I am gonna give it atleast until the beginning of next week and then open it up. Seems apple cider ferments easily but using a lot of water and sugar takes longer for some reason. I will get into aging it correctly later but for now I am happy with speeding the process along and seeing what comes out afterwards.

[Mushijobah]

How are you guysfiltering your cider afterwards? I heard through a paper towell...is that the best way?

[seethe303]

Originally Posted by Mushijobah

How are you guysfiltering your cider afterwards? I heard through a paper towell...is that the best way?

don't filter it. all that stuff left over is really good for you.

[yonderfishin]

Originally Posted by seethe303

don't filter it. all that stuff left over is really good for you.

seethe's been doing this kind of thing for a while so he knows what he is talking about . Cheesecloth would probably be better for a filter but until you get into bottling and aging it really isnt necessary and atleast to me having it cloudy with sediment in it makes it even better

[Mushijobah]

The dead yeast colonies are good for me? They may be, I don't know if I'm down to consume them though, lol.

[yonderfishin]

The sediment usually collects at the bottom and if you dont disturb it much you can pour most of the cider out without all the sludge. Yeast is in or on almost everything you eat or drink anyway , even fresh fruit. If it helps any , alcohol is the yeast by product , or excretion.....I dont think it would be too inaccurate to call it yeast pee so if you can swallow that then a yeast colony shouldnt be too difficult. Bear in mind that we have all these microrganisims and more in our body anyway and in certain amounts they usually are at work keeping us healthy. The only difference between drinking yeast colonies in cider and eating an apple or even taking a breath of air , is that there are more of them in the cider and you can actually see it , but they are everywhere and on everything even if you cant see them.

[seethe303]

good post yonder!

if you don't disturb the bottle you can get most of the good stuff out without much of the yeast on the bottom. keep in mind though there are styles of beers that are supposed to be consumed with the yeast. a lot of Belgian beers are like this.

[Mushijobah]

Yep, I'm aware of the processes....I'm just kind of grossed out by eating pure yeast sludge at the bottom . Another example is Mother of Vinegar...some people will eat is for supposed heath benefits...not me, yuck...haha

[fishintechnician]

Well I bottled my first batch last night I used pint jars and sealed them ended up with 24 pints and about half gallon extra. Mine got really cloudy so i let it settle a while longer had a good taste but kind of dry ( again I think from my yeast) so I added a little sugar and cinampn when I canned it. Made sure to heat it too to kill the yeast. Mine came out with a VERY high alcohol content, drank about a half pint and was tipsy. I warmed it in the microwave for about 20 sec then added a little cinamonsugar stired in and it was delicious. May make another batch or try a different kind not sure yet

[peple of the perch]

man you guys are going to be drunk till X-mas. lol

[yonderfishin]

I just made a batch using beer brewing yeast and it came out great. Still sweet and has the cider flavor with about as much alcohol as beer. I think that is the yeast I will use from now on since it dosent distort the natural flavors. My next project will be to make actual beer but it costs more and the process takes a little longer so its probably gonna be something I do during the winter weather we have in store.

[fishintechnician]

Originally Posted by peple of the perch

man you guys are going to be drunk till X-mas. lol

thats the plan

[Dawitner]

I do 10 to 15 gallons every year. Ferment the cider with champagne yeast and 4 lbs sugar per 5 gallons in a plastic bucket with an airlock. Rack it off to a glass carboy to settle for 6 months or so then bottle it in beer bottles with a little sugar and some yeast. It carbonates up really nice. The trick it to pour it into a glass before you drink it, pour it easy and don't pour off the bottom 1/4" or so.

Great stuff but dont drink more than 2.

All the supplies you need at Grape & Granary in Akron, check our their website.

[pal21]

Question for anybody.

Where do you finr unpastureized cider?